[img]https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...ame/16243694666743798942508483389441.jpg[/img]On top of the rocker arm lock nuts there are also a spring steel push nuts. That I assume helps keep the lock nuts from loosing up. I took off the valve cover to adjust the rockers and noticed that three of those push nuts had fallen off. Do I need these to be there? And if so, where to buy new ones?
Can’t say I have ever seen spring nuts on top of the rocker adjustment nuts. My ‘59 235 does not have them. Maybe thats why their coming off.
Can you post a picture of the rocker with the spring nuts installed?
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals
1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc Brakes Project Journals Stovebolt Gallery Forum
Those are called Pal nuts, are used on aircraft, external places, not on internal locations, among other places. Not required on rockers, small enough to be sucked into dangerous places.
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires. '47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle. '54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed. '55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
They're called "Pal-nuts", and they aren't original equipment. Pitch them into the nearest circular file and don't bother to reinstall them. They're used on 235 connecting rods in some applications, and they're also worthless there, although Chey did use them as OEM for some silly reason. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Probably not- - - -the PAL nuts wouldn't have enough strength to retain the dippers- - - -they're always installed between the rod nut and the cap. The force of the dipper hitting the stream of oil several times a second would rip the sheet metal nuts off. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Isn't it amazing what we sometimes find both in and out of old engines. I believe the reason is due to some folks believing that simplicity of an engine meant simple applications. Maybe Jerry can go on the Greasy Spoon and elaborate, he has to have some interesting stories. Ed
Currently making 1954 3100 better than new and Genetics
Probably not- - - -the PAL nuts wouldn't have enough strength to retain the dippers- - - -they're always installed between the rod nut and the cap. The force of the dipper hitting the stream of oil several times a second would rip the sheet metal nuts off. Jerry
The setup on my 216 was rod cap, dipper, rod nut, then pal nut. I was suggesting that the extra stress caused by the dippers would theoretically call for something (like pal nuts) to ensure that the rod nuts stayed in place.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
Rod nuts stay tight because the bolt stretches a little and creates enough internal tension to keep the nut from backing off. I can't imagine a loose rod nut being kept from backing the rest of the way off the bolt by a palnut. A 3/8-24 rod bolt usually gets 35 ft-lbs. of torque, and a palnut might handle a maximum of 10 ft-lbs. on a really good day.
I've seen ARP rod bolts that needed 70-80 ft-lbs to get the specified amount of stretch on the bolt, which is how we measured the "torque" on racing engine connecting rod bolts. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
We all have names we've used for years. I call a lot of fasteners "Tinnermans", others call some fasteners Palnuts. Tinnerman and Palnut are company names. Each company has many styles of fasteners. Mr. Tinnerman started his company in the mid 1920's and two guys started Palnut at the same time. These companies have been merged and unmerged, bought and sold. They were purchased by a French fastener maker A. Raymond. Not sure where they ended up. I believe the last I saw was Palnut was absorbed into Tinnerman and A. Raymond absorbed Tinnerman and is known as A. Raymond-Tinnerman.
There are push nuts, cage nuts, J clips, U clips, speed clips, etc. Each was invented by either Tinnerman or Palnut. The particular one here which is sold by A. Raymond is one of many palnut designs. It is known as a Threaded Hex Lock-Nut. It can be stand alone or used as a jam nut. After torqueing it down on top of a hex nut it's teeth lock against reversing. Many vendors sell it. It is a stamped spring steel fastener.
If these fasteners were used in AD and earlier motors, It doesn't seem like a good idea. They are mostly relegated to: Toys, appliances, HVAC, consumer electronics and so on. I do not see them in any valve train pictures in old shop manuals online or the mention of them. I haven't seen them all of course.
Tinnerman-Palnut products are used all over our modern vehicles.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I've seen them used on the rod bolts of just about every flathead MOPAR six I've ever opened up. They don't work any better there than they do on GM products- - - -they're just excess hardware. I've found more than a few buried in sludge inside an oil pan. jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!