It's not mine and I know there is some info about "converting to propane" in Tech Tips. I've never seen a conversion on an 1950 pickup so I borrowed the pictures. Someone has it listed on East Oregon Craigslist. I see what looks like a regulator at the bottom of the firewall. What is the device above it with all the hoses?
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
It's a heat exchanger that converts the liquid LP to a gas, using hot engine coolant. Simply releasing the pressure on the fuel in the tank does not allow enough of it to evaporate to run anything larger than a good-sized lawn mower engine. After doing maintenance on a fleet of LP-powered vehicles, it would be hard to run fast enough to give me a system like the one pictured. The fuel vapor passing through the same throttle body as the air displaces enough air to cause a 10% or greater power loss on the average LP-fueled engine. The only ones I've seen that produce acceptable power inject the liquid fuel below the throttle plates. The engine also needs to have a very high compression ratio to make use of the fuel efficiently, since LP gas has about a 110 octane rating. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Back in the early 90s ONG (Oklahoma Natural Gas) put on a big pitch to my city to convert the fleet to use their product. They supplied us with a entire kit to convert one of our Patrol Cars over and the mechanic to do it. Stock 350 Chevy Police Package with about 20000 miles. I was tasked with doing the testing since I was the Departments driving instructor. There was a toggle switch mounted on the radio stack that allowed me to switch back and forth between natural gas and gasoline. I took baseline readings on gasoline from dead stop to 80mph at full throttle letting the transmission shift on its own. Then switched to natural gas and duplicated the test. The difference was dramatic. Natural gas was like driving a 60s VW while gasoline was as it always had been. I also tested starting out from 0 and accelerating to 60 on natural gas then flipping the switch to gasoline while holding the accelerator to the floor. It was like hitting passing gear. I wrote up my findings and presented them to the Chief. The next day the system was removed from the patrol car and ONG was sent packing. I believe the system was used on a few of the public works trucks but never mentioned again for police cars.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
We never tried propane but they tried to set us up with a Volvo patrol car which went pretty good but no room .I always liked the chev caprice package over the crown Victoria .
buoymaker That is a rough installation of propane equipment !! Someone that ubderstands it can make that run like a charm ! I wouldn't trade mine for any sorry vapor locking gasoline burner!! Works really well with HEI too,no fuel pump to fight ! that thing below is a fuel lock (shut-off) and filter.
Buoymaker - isn't there an old cliche about curiosity and a cat?
I would love to have the super sales person (and the government incentive person) that sold all the local school systems on the benefits??? of propane some years ago for school buses, working for me. Darn near BROKE every school system in several counties! Those no good for nothing individuals would be set to manually digging post-holes in Miller county from dawn to dusk! Oh, and there is only one rock in Miller county. It is under the entire county! Anywhere from sticking out to four inches deep. Taxes went UP because of those propane conversions!
Talk about how to break an engine!
I have no personal knowledge of CNG, so no comment on that.
Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
Jon that's why I carry a rubber finger so when I point and say, "what's that", the fan blade doesn't eat up my good finger. Thanks everybody for the education.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
carbking I assume your inventory of carburators con tains no LPG carbs ! LOL I have noticed at swap meets that not many can recognize them or related parts. That is OK I'll dispose of them!!!
fixite7 - we had a couple of cases of new old stock brass ones made by the Ensign company several years ago. We recycled them (scrap brass). Those things were HEAVY. And no, we do not currently have a single one. We do have roughly 150,000 gasoline carbs, if you need one
We currently have about 50 new Zenith LP rebuilding kits. These we are offering at 50 percent of distributor costs. These came in a warehouse buy of about 20,000 Zenith kits we made a few years ago. If you are interested in them all, you may have them at 20 percent of distributor cost, but you have to take them all.
Ensign's tractor carburetor design was purchased by I.H.C. back in the 1930's. Ensign then (or possibly earlier) started producing propane and dual fuel carburetors. About 1985, I finally tracked down the company that bought the remains of Ensign, and asked if they still had the original gasoline carburetor drawings. I got transferred several times, and finally got to the librarian, who told me he had personally overseen the destruction of ALL of the Ensign drawings. They didn't want any of the propane stuff to be reproduced because of the liability, and the lawsuits. I almost cried. We had to purchase (or borrow) original Ensign gasoline carburetors for patterns to make kits for the gasoline carburetors. It took over 30 years to get them all! Ensign made gasoline carburetor for all of the early Caterpillar, and Best crawler tractors, as well as I.H.C. tractors, and a few I.H.C. trucks.
Jon.
Last edited by carbking; 05/28/20215:47 PM.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
Good move, Jon- - - - -scrapping those LPG parts! There's no telling how much frustration you've saved people who still believe they're a good substitute for a real fuel system! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
carbking Thankyou for the reply,that stuff is interesting to me. There is still old oilfield stuff here and I have some bronze ensign gas carburetors I have had running. Isuppose back when you had plenty of field gas just going to waste they were very popular !!
carbking Thankyou for the reply,that stuff is interesting to me. There is still old oilfield stuff here and I have some bronze ensign gas carburetors I have had running. Isuppose back when you had plenty of field gas just going to waste they were very popular !!
Jerry - I guess if one had nothing else..........................
When I was stationed in Japan more than 50 years ago, would occasionally see three-wheel pickup trucks with part of the bed taken up by a "double boiler" (don't know correct name). They had a fire in the lower section, with green wood in the upper section. The fumes from the upper section were piped to the engine. Not sure how well it worked, but it did work. I have wished many times that I had looked at the engine compartment of one of those trucks.
Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
Back in the early 90s ONG (Oklahoma Natural Gas) put on a big pitch to my city to convert the fleet to use their product. They supplied us with a entire kit to convert one of our Patrol Cars over and the mechanic to do it. Stock 350 Chevy Police Package with about 20000 miles. I was tasked with doing the testing since I was the Departments driving instructor. There was a toggle switch mounted on the radio stack that allowed me to switch back and forth between natural gas and gasoline. I took baseline readings on gasoline from dead stop to 80mph at full throttle letting the transmission shift on its own. Then switched to natural gas and duplicated the test. The difference was dramatic. Natural gas was like driving a 60s VW while gasoline was as it always had been. I also tested starting out from 0 and accelerating to 60 on natural gas then flipping the switch to gasoline while holding the accelerator to the floor. It was like hitting passing gear. I wrote up my findings and presented them to the Chief. The next day the system was removed from the patrol car and ONG was sent packing. I believe the system was used on a few of the public works trucks but never mentioned again for police cars.
Martin, very good summary of CNG vehicles with 8:1 or 8.5:1 engines.
Back in the '90s I was one of 3 folks on our company's (Arkla Gas at the time) task force for CNG. With both state and Federal tax incentives the cost of CNG conversions wasn't bad. Gasoline was around $1.25 gallon and NG was in the $4 to $5 per MCF range. The GGE (gasoline gallon equivalent) is 7.8 gallons gas per MCF of NG. So, the CNG equivalency cost was about $0.60 per gallon.
With fuel cost halved, the payback on the conversion cost was fairly quick for most. Oil changes could be extended (many times) and emissions were improved.
CNG has a octane rating of 130. You really need a compression ratio of around 12:1 for best performance. My company car was a Chrysler Concorde with the optional 10.5 compression 3.5 engine. It was pretty happy with CNG. As you mentioned, most vehicles with the standard 8.5 cr engines of the day were not so happy.
Fleet owners were pleased with the reduced fuel cost and didn't have any problem with extended oil changes and reduced damage from kid drivers abusing equipment. If they invested in a yard slow fill system, the drivers saved time on fueling. Just get in their truck/van and go.
One of the best things about my CNG car was I had a home fuel station, meaning I'd plug it in at night and next morning it was full of fuel. I'd go for many weeks and never need to take time to stop at a gas station. Then it'd only be when on the road and no public fast fill CNG stations were available. If no CNG, then just flip a switch for gasoline.
My observations were if a fleet driver didn't like the idea of change and CNG, he wasn't going to be happy. If he couldn't find a problem he'd cause one. Many folks liked it, some didn't.
Jon, "wood gas" dates way further back- - - -like WW II or before. Germany fueled cars and trucks with wood gas generators so they could use their scarce supply of gasoline for fighter planes, etc. The principle is pretty sinple - - - -heat small blocks of wood (not sawdust) in a closed chamber, and a pretty much unmodified gasoline engine will run on the gas that's produced. No, it's not a high performance, or economical way to run a vehicle, but it does work- - - - -sort of! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
moparguy that is interesting info,other neighbors had a gas well but couldn,t keep their hi-pressure pump alive, I always thought it was wet gas that hurt it,but could't convince them to put in a dryer. Cities use it !
moparguy that is interesting info,other neighbors had a gas well but couldn,t keep their hi-pressure pump alive, I always thought it was wet gas that hurt it,but could't convince them to put in a dryer. Cities use it !
Carbking replied to you and it will reappear probably. That is interesting about those ancient LP carbs,I now use forklift carbs on my toys but my cross country GMC is injected. Went 1637 miles on 110 gal.of LP at interstate speeds about 80 mph crossed il. mo. ok. ts. nm. fueled in kingman az. AN old guy there questioned a bushing on my 1951 LP. tank but it was forged steel (right thing) so blew over! Really like that LP powered air conditioning !!
