Well, I finally got my little diesel engine home and started prepping it to go in the truck. It's on a stand, so the plan is to get it running and sorted out on the stand ahead of time.
Detroits like lots of gears- - - - -I hope you've got a 5 speed main box and a Brownie! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The guys who drove inline Detroits back when I was trucking talked about "rowing it with the shift levers"! There's a very narrow power band. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I looked at doing a Detroit in a 42 dump truck. Decided against it due to the narrow power band, need for multi gears and noise. Think it would be a cool build but not very practical. Would love to put a cat motor in but haven't found one with enough power tha would fit. Keep us posted on your progress.
I looked at doing a Detroit in a 42 dump truck. Decided against it due to the narrow power band, need for multi gears and noise. Think it would be a cool build but not very practical. Would love to put a cat motor in but haven't found one with enough power tha would fit. Keep us posted on your progress.
Those things are the reasons I wanted a Detroit! LOL!
The nice thing about most diesel engines is the interchangeablity. This engine has an SAE #4 bellhousing, same as Kubota, Yanmar, and a lot of other small diesels.
Phoenix Casting and Machining makes all kinds of adapters and the prices are really pretty decent.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Used to run open headers back in the day I'm so bad now, put a muffler on my open pipe 235 and if I do end up putting a cat in will probably put an Allison auto behind it.
2-stroke Diesels, especially ones with a blower like a Detroit, are kind of like chainsaws- - - - -the only place they make any power is when they're running wide open. "Screamin' Jimmy" is a very appropriate name! That being said, there's nothing quite like the sound of a 6-71 working hard to pull a load on a long uphill grade! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Yep, I flew a bunch of them on model airplanes back in the 1950's. They ran pretty well, but I had to add castor oil to the fuel! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Yep, I flew a bunch of them on model airplanes back in the 1950's. They ran pretty well, but I had to add castor oil to the fuel! Jerry
Were those compression ignition aided by glow plug? Having a hard time wrapping my head around a 2 cycle diesel fuel engine building enough compression to ignite fuel without a blower.
BC 1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc 1949 GMC 250 project in waiting 1960 C60 pasture art Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
Yes, there were straight Diesel model airplane engines- - - -they had a thumbscrew built into the cylinder head to increase the compression. It usually took a battery powered prop spinner to crank one fast enough to light off the fuel. Finger-flipping one usually caused a kickback and a cut finger. LOTS more power (and noise) than a glow plug engine! Operating RPM was in the 20-25K range.
There's about 100 of them on Ebay today. Search "Diesel model airplane engine". Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Speaking of two-cycle music ... I enjoyed the music driving this rig over the crest of the Blue Ridge Mountains and into the Shenandoah Valley for the 2015 ATHS Tri State Show in Winchester, VA. We had to pull quite a grade and the ole 6-71 sang a wonderful tune.
I drive Class 8 trucks with both 3406B Cat and big cam Cummins engines (both Petes), but nothing beats the sound of a 6-71 pulling a load at 2300 RPM... well ... maybe a 12V-71 ....
Last edited by John Milliman; 03/24/202111:57 PM.
~ John
"We are not now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are"
1948 International Farmall Super A 1949 Chevrolet 3804 In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum 1973 IH 1310 Dump 2001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie" 2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley)
I put a lot of miles on 318's (8V-71) and 307's (6V-92), all class 8. We had 9,10, and 13 speeds. 'Course we could only load to 80,000 due to Ohio limits, hauled Budweiser from Columbus to Ann Arbor 6 nights a week.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
How many gears are behind that old 6-71, John? If it ain't got at least two shifters, you ain't really truckin'! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Jerry -- There were 13 gears and three shifters behind the 6-71 in the picture ....
~ John
"We are not now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are"
1948 International Farmall Super A 1949 Chevrolet 3804 In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum 1973 IH 1310 Dump 2001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie" 2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley)
My uncle drove a Detroit powered rig hauling steel and he used to say the only way he made good time was to slam the door on a finger and drive it while he was really P.O.'d. I remember he never added a quart of oil but rather a gallon. Always could tell where he parked overnight.
Evan -- That's the only way you *could* drive a 2 cycle Green Leaker. Otherwise it would over heat or you couldn't shift it. At least for the 71 - Series, they only ran happy if they were against the governor (2300 RPM). I'm not sure about leaking -- AMTRAKJoe can corroborate this as he rode with me. But on the trip out and back to Kansas city a few years ago (1,400 miles, all Interstate 2300 RPM most of the time, screaming happilly) ... on the trip home, we topped off the oil in KC. When we got to White's (Racine, VA) two days later to refuel, we did not need oil and the engine wasn't leaking. Once we got home and the truck sat for a week, it started leaking again -- about the same time our hearing returned ...
The transmission was seeping a little, though ...
In my limited experience (with one 6-71), that engine was happiest when it was wound all the way up and kept there. 2300 rpm, 62 MPH all day long. It used less fuel, it didn't burn oil and it didn't leak. For people used to lesser engines that don't like the top end, it might take some getting used to.
2 cycle Detroits -- drive 'em like you stole 'em and they'll love you long time.
Last edited by John Milliman; 03/25/20213:18 PM.
~ John
"We are not now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are"
1948 International Farmall Super A 1949 Chevrolet 3804 In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum 1973 IH 1310 Dump 2001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie" 2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley)
I drove many Detroit powered trucks in various conditions , from highway to logging trucks in the bush . The 71 series like 671 and 8 v 71 even the twin 8v71 making v 16n's in the 50 ton rock trucks recommended rpm was 1700 to 2300 . I knew a guy that ran a 8v71 up to 2700 and never heard of him blowing it up . In logging form a 671 T I drove with a duplex trans with a flexible governor on serious grades required shifting only the main trans on steeper grades dropping 3 gears at a time in the prosses to keep it in the power band. These motors were not like the current ones where a driver can get on a highway put it in cruise and let it go for a thousand miles without shifting . At one point in the late 70's I was driving a truck with a 671 inline in eastern Canada and dropped and exhaust valve . I parked it on the side of a two lane road got a ride to a maw and paw truck stop ,spoke to the mechanic there who called his brother a local farmer who swung by with his John Deere ,towed the truck to the truck stop we dropped the trailer dragged the tractor to his farm stuck it in a barn ,gave me a room to sleep as I'd been up about 24 hours at this point and the farmer along with is brother over the course of that night replaced the valve along with the piston and sleeve in the damaged cylinder and I was on the road at noon the next day. Yes they are noisy and leak oil and not all that powerful , but in the right hands they will go on forever .
Detroits and old Harley Davidsons- - - -when they quit leaking, add oil- - - - -they're empty! I'll have to admit, though- - - -the 97 EVO engine in my Soft Tail doesn't leak! Maybe that's why Harley replaced it with the Twin Cam! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Looked at putting in a 3126, those motors are pretty good size. Would take major mods to get it in a 42 1 1/2 ton. It's longer and wider than the engine bay.
You mention your 3-53 engine has an SAE #4 housing. Depending on what transmission you choose you might have more luck with a SAE #3 housing on the engine. Original 53 series flywheels that fit automotive type clutches are sometimes hard to find and when you do they are usually SAE #2 or #3 size (possibly always, not sure).
It may be possible to modify one of the hundreds of different other 53 series flywheels to fit a clutch suitable for your new application, but it's generally easier to do conversions with ready made parts and avoid machine work when possible.
Before getting to far into wrenching on your conversion start trying to plan dozens of steps ahead in an effort to sort out as many of the big issues before they're actually issues.
Freightliner cabovers, 318 Detroits, and the Grapevine hill- - - - -"When I die I'm going to Heaven- - - -I've spent my time in the other place already!" Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
You mention your 3-53 engine has an SAE #4 housing. Depending on what transmission you choose you might have more luck with a SAE #3 housing on the engine. Original 53 series flywheels that fit automotive type clutches are sometimes hard to find and when you do they are usually SAE #2 or #3 size (possibly always, not sure).
It may be possible to modify one of the hundreds of different other 53 series flywheels to fit a clutch suitable for your new application, but it's generally easier to do conversions with ready made parts and avoid machine work when possible.
Before getting to far into wrenching on your conversion start trying to plan dozens of steps ahead in an effort to sort out as many of the big issues before they're actually issues.
By changing to a #3 bellhousing I could use all stock GM parts, but with the cost of those parts these days it would cost me a fortune.
Phoenix Machine makes an adapter set for the #4 bellhousing and #10 flywheel (which I have). It's only $480 for the set. The advantage of using the Phoenix adapters is that I can use my existing bellhousing and clutch linkage. It moves the engine 3/4" forward, no problem as I have lots of room with the 3 cylinder. The only downside I can see is that you end up with two flywheels, and their weight (in my opinion) will make the engine want to keep spinning and not run down between shifts. The folks at Phoenix say it hasn't really been a problem.
There are a bunch of other outfits making basically the same adapters, but selling them as Kubota to Chevy conversions. Kubota also uses the #4 bellhousing and #10 flywheel. The difference is they are asking a bunch more money for theirs. ($1600 but they include motor mounts).
Sounds like you're doing your research. Now that you mention it I have seen the sort of transmission adapter that adds a second flywheel for the clutch after the engine flywheel. I have no experience with that method, while it may work great it seems odd and not a very clean solution to me, and I'd opt for a more normal setup if time allows to find it.
I still haven't run the engine, waiting on another blower. Some water had gotten into the intake before I got the engine, and froze inside one of the rotors. When it broke the rotor, it locked up the engine. (One reason I got such a good price.) With the blower off, the engine turns over just fine.
After driving the truck with the four speed and the Brownie, I've decided that the gears don't line up that well. I've decided to go with an automatic when I swap in the diesel. Using the auto will also give me a double overdrive.
Finally got the little engine running on its stand. I want to get everything sorted out before I take the truck off the road for the diesel installation.
In honor of Cletis (what did you get done today on 51 6400) . Made me get under there and service that hydrovac I know it was hungry for Bendix vacuum cylinder oil. Also greased pedal pivots with corn head grease,feel like it soaks in better when it's hot like this.Gonna check sm420 gear oil however is working fine.
Thinking of trying to stuff a 3-71 in a 1958 GMC, LCF. Have the engine on a stand , runs pretty good, but want to change out the injectors before installing it in the truck. going to bump the RPM to around 2350 or 2450. For the transmission I have is a Eaton-Fuller 7 speed. Rear gears have been changed to 4:11. I do have a 3 speed Brown-Lipe on hand. Rather not use it, but will if I need more gears. I do have access to a frame of a 1979 GMC with 2 speed rears, ratio unknown. Any opinions/comments to my project? will it work? Any suggestions are appreciated
2-speeds generally have two ratios- - - -"slow" and "really slow". I'd suggest keeping the 4.11 rear end and adding a good gear selection with whatever transmission combo works best. Pay close attention to the ratio progression between gears, as Detroits really hate to lug down. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Well, it's been a bit over a year since my last update. The engine is in the truck now and I'm driving it pretty much daily. I made my own adapters and hooked it up to the original 4 speed with the 3 speed Brownie. The little diesel has gobs more torque than the gas engine that was in there. Top speed is an issue right now, I'm only good for around 40 mph. I have a friend that has a P-30 van rear axle, that would most likely have the rear gear I need.
The engine fits into the bay like it was made for the truck.
