The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 60-63 Conventional Cab and V6 questions

I'll give you some background on what I am looking to do first:

Basicly I am making a 4 door-tandom rear axle-61 chevy truck to tow show cars with. Its going to be done in a hot rod style setup. Since I have not even seen a origional 4 door around here I have decided to make my own. I have most everything I need already other than the final engine/tranny and another set of doors.

Well I was out at a friends saw mill (he is a logger) last night picking up a ford truck hood and knowtised a Big 60-63 2 ton???? sitting in the weeds. After talking a bit he says I can have it for free and even says he will deliver it to my shop for me. The cab apears to be the same as the light duty trucks except for the firewall. Witch for me doesn't matter because I would have to push the firewall back anyway to fit the 500caddy engine I am planning on using.

Then he tells me it has a realy strong/good running engine in it. He doesn't know what it is but he drove it to that spot before they pulled the 2 speed rear end (8 years ago) and said it ran better than any of their other trucks of that vintage. It also has a 5 speed tranny behind it. I look at it (at night) and think its a SBV8 with funny valve covers. Well after looking at www.6066gmctrucks.org I am now convenced that it is one of the big V6's.

Here is a pic from the site showing a very similer truck.
[img]http://www.6066gmctrucks.org/gmc-id/60-61-hood-3500.jpg[/img]

So my first question is do you think that the cab is roughly the same dimension in the rear as a 1/2-1 ton trucks? I don't care about the fenders, short hood, or firewall area being different. But I like the very clean cab, grear doors, windshield with no cracks and extra firewall room this body has. I know that probubly the final verdict will come down to me with a tape measure but I figured I would ask and see if you all think I would be able to graft a light-truck cab on the back of this one.

The second question is what is your opinion of the big V6 engines for use in a tow rig? My origional plan was to find a 70-71 500caddy engine and build it to the 400-500 lbft of torque range (basicly just better than stock)...then add a NOS kit to boost the power when I wanted to play around. Do you think these big V6's could perform the same as the big caddy? Anyone play around with NOS on them?

Are those 5 speed trannys sincronized in the upper gears? I know the Low gear is not going to be but I would prefer the upper gears to be. I would rather use a manual for this project than the th400 that comes behind a Caddy motor...a heavy 5 speed would be great.

Thanks
ROB

I drove these tractors for Bekins Moving and Storage for a long time in Arizona. We pulled 40 foot drop frame trailers with GVW from 20,000 to 40,000 pounds. They had a 406 cubic inch V6 that developed huge torque from about 1500 to 3500 RPM. The 5 speed transmisssion with a 2 speed differential would split shift so you stayed in the fat torque band all the way up to about 75 mph. It was synchro in all 5 gears. These pulled so much better than the later 350's and the 454's through the mountains especially. When given the choice I always took one of the big V6's until they traded them in newer models. If you can you ought to stay with that big 6. Jim

Yes the cab is about the same, which is to say that the firewall & Floor are were the differences are. The rest is the same. Same doors, same windows, same dash.

The GMC V6 was built to pull, they developed lots of torque for pulling big loads. I'm building a 1965 GMC 1 ton with the GMC 401M V6 engine, New Process 540-GL 5-speed, & Spicer 5831-B Auxiliary 3-speed Transmission. Should be a pulling brute.

Now would be the point I would tell you to check out the, 6066 GMC Trucks website, but looks like you have already.

Yep I have used your site alot Jolly. Even with it being based on GMC's VS Chevys it still has alot of info that has helped me.

I have been doing alot of searching on the web and it sounds like these big V6's would work great for what I am doing. It sounds like the bigest drawback they have is that they don't hold up well to high revs. That doesn't worry me to much because the way I am running the tandom rear axles will give me a 2:1 overdrive when I want it. That can keep my unloaded highway rpm down.

Jolly, what do you expect your gas milege to be...best/worst? What RPM should I shoot for at highway speed while towing? I found the readline and max torque charts on your site.

Has anyone tried to hop these things up? Websites? I have built my own intakes and headers before ...I might just try and do that with one of these V6's just to try and get a holley 4 barrel on it. Hum maybe 3 rochester 2 barrels (got some sitting around), it would look cool but be a real pain to adjust. Do some head porting and maybe try and raise the compression slightly. I don't suspose there is much in the way of cam selection for these rigs?

Thanks for the responses guys.

You have some novel ideas there. I was a mechanic at a truck leasing co. We had several of these .They Had good torque but no power. The reliability was bad. Seems like we had a lot of clutch trouble. I would go for a big inch v-8.

What type of reliability problems were you seeing? I have herd that if you take care of them and don't over rev them they should last 200-300K. But if you rev them to high they will loose connecting rods.

If the clutches are undersized I could see that being a problem....

Its eather something like this of a 500 caddy. So beleave me I have thought about the Big V8's. But if this can have similer performance + a better transmission + I end up with one for free.... I am game to try it.

I accidently revved a couple of them up to over 4000 rpm with sloppy back shifting and never lost a rod. It seems to me there must have been several choices for transmissions and rear ends because they commonly called these heavy duty tractors as compared to the same model they bought for simple local work. We had stubbies, COE's and conventionals. Those heavy duty tractors lasted forever.

rcurrier44 if you are ever near coldwater michigan there was a 60-66 4 door cab pickup sitting near a bait shop,if I can remember correctly take the first coldwater exit off of 69 heading north and head north on that road and on the right as you near town there is bait shop and the truck was sitting near by. I dont know if the truck is still sitting there as its been a few years but if you want a 4 door cab and are in the area it might be worth it to check and see if its still there

Thanks for the leed on the 4-door but I am in South West Montana...thats a heck of a drive. Who knows there is probubly one around here, just can't find it. I did however find a 4 door 60's dodge way back on a trail in the Bolder area. God knows how long its been sitting there. There are tons of old cool cars around...but they are so spread out and hidden that you realy have to keep your eyes open to find what you want.

The 2 almost complete 61 trucks I have out back right now were both free...just had to tow them home. I know of another parts truck (62) for 50$ and just ran across a 62 (looks like) north of town last weekend behind a fallen down barn. Probubly know of 4-5 64-66's sitting around in the area too. Its amazing how much cool old iron is out here.

But this big truck has one of the cleenest bodies (and a good windshield!) out of all the trucks I have run across.

the v-6 jimmies had a love affair with the gas station. 3 1/2 to 4 mpg was not uncommon for road tractor, and about 9-10 for pickups. pretty reliable as long as you spent plenty of time under the hood. they are a long stroke engine, so will have plenty of torque, but had some flaws that could have made much more actual horsepower.

updating the carb is a good idea, and so is a hotter coil. dual exhaust is pretty much mandatory for decent performance with low restriction mufflers (not necessarily loud.)

they were a good workhorse engine, and in my opinion the 401 magnum was the best one of the series, but the milage was alot of the killer of the engines as for as g.m. was concerned. improvements in diesal technology with better milage was the undoing of the v-6, although the same series of big v-6's g.m. did try with the toro-flo diesal, which was a converted gas engine.

it was an abortion, and g.m. only made them long enough to realize they were a boat anchor, mostly due to the crappy fuel system. that plan was abandoned in short order. green diesals beat 'em out, and brown diesals were better.

Well 9-10 MPG doesn't realy scare me that much...but 3.5-4 sure would. However I don't think the caddy 500 would do much better than the 9-10 mph. I guess thats just the price you pay for having all that power on tap. With a newer carb and a 2:1 OD I should realy be able to improve on the 9-10 MPG while not towing.

Thanks for the info
ROB

EDIT: Will the stock distributer handle a hotter coil or will I need something newer? I remember there was some info on 6066 about a newer upgrade.

rcurrier44, you'll find a distributor upgrade on my site, check the " GMC V6 Performance Upgrades " Page.

The GMC V6 is a love hate thing, either you love them or hate them. If you want a real truck with a real truck engine, you'll love the GMC V6, you'll be willing to slow down and enjoy the view along the way. If your looking for a hot rod, you'll hate it, it wont pass every thing on the road, it will how every PULL every thing on the road. All the younger crow want to go fast and get speeding tickets, they don't see any of the things that make the trip enjoyable.

Fuel mileage for any truck from the 60s is not going to be that good, heck what was the price of fuel back then? I don't thing mileage was a consideration. You can improve the mileage of any truck with some repairs and maintenance, and if you can find an over drive trans of some kind to use, that will help too.

Not only is the GMC V6 a workhorse, it's an attention getter at shows, most folks don't even know these engine were built. What you need to find is a bigger V6 if the truck you have a line on has the 305C it will be lacking some in the power end of things too, just too much truck for that engine. You need to find a 351, 401 or 478 V6.

One thing you should understand, my site is not based on GMC VS Chevrolet, its based on GMC trucks from the V6 years. We don't bash Chevy or even the "D" or "F" brand of trucks. I even have some Chevy info on my site and I'm an owner of a 1960 Chevrolet L60 Viking LCF .

Well thats what I want... I have plenty of cars that go fast. I need a rig to haul them and look good doing it.

Even if it is a 305 I may clean it up a bit and throw it in till I can find a good deal on a one of the bigger CID V6's. The truck is going to take me a long time to complete so I'm not in a rush.

ROB

Well I went out on Friday night after work and looked at it before it got dark. It sure is a V8...he was correct. But it has what look to be the same valve covers as the Big V6. Its not a SBC of any sort....but I don't know what it is. The truck is marked as a 60 chevy 2.5 ton. It was bought at an auction for the 2 speed rear end and driven 75 miles home before the rear end was pulled. It has what appears from the shifter nob markings to be an SM420 4 speed (not the 5 speed like the origional owner had said). I think the markings on the block infront of the passenger side head were TIII58. Here is a pic.

[img]http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/album173/DCP00629.sized.jpg[/img]

Here is a pic from the outside.

[img]http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/album173/DCP00630.sized.jpg[/img]

Does anyone know of a website with engine #'s from the old chevy trucks. I have the feeling that it was swaped in...it just looks newer than other engines I have seen in these trucks. Thanks for any help you can give me.

ROB

EDIT: Found the MorTec website and they say the number is a ENGINE ASSEMBLY DATE / SUFFIX CODE. Unfortunatly what I wrote down doesn't match the format options they give...oh well.

Rob,

That looks like a Chevy 348 or 409 engine. I believe the 348 was available in Chevy trucks of that era.

rcurrier44 that definately is not a gmc v6. all v6,s had the spark plugs down in between the intake manifold branches on the top sides of the heads. should be a 348 chevy motor. i believe 409 ,s didnt come out until 1962

408 chevy dude. ya struck GOLD!!!!! AND I BET YA DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!

Yep definatly not a V6. I found a real nice website that talks alot about these engines.

www.348-409.com

Even have a forum with alot of good info...mostly on the car vershons though. I read that the 348 is the one that origionaly came in that truck but who knows it anything was swaped.

408????was that a mistype or another engine size I hadn't heard of.

Don't know about gold but we worked out the deal on Sat...I pull everything I want (engine/tranny/body) and he runs it over to my shop with his trailer. All for the amazing price of an 18 pack of bud light. can't beat that!

What you have there is a Chevrolet LCF truck with a big block Chevy V8. This would be a truck to get, not many of these LCFs are still kicking around. I even found one but much more rusted out. 1960 Chevrolet L60 Viking LCF .

i hit the wrong button. 409. too bad ya don't live closer. i know a guy looking for one and will pay a grand for a running 409.

Hey rcurrier, you better grab that one, if ya can. Like Jolly said, those '60-'66 LCF's are hard to find. Yours is a 1960 year model, going to be a 70, or 80 series Spartan. The 70, & 80 series Spartans came with the 348ci. big block engine. The 60 series Vikings normally had the small block V-8 in them. Up until last year, I had 5 '60-'66 Chevrolet LCF's, but sold them all , except 1 parts truck. I had a 1960 L80 series Spartan LCF road tractor, 348, V-8, 5 spd. trans.'s, with a 2 speed rear axle, a 1964 Chevrolet L60H LCF(Heavy Duty 60 series) 350 ci. small block, 5 spd. trans.'s 2 spd. rear axle, & a 1965 Chevrolet L80 series LCF Holmes Wrecker, that had a 409ci. big block, 5 spd. trans.'s & 2 spd. rear axle. You can see them all here, http://www.classiccoe.com/oldcoetrucks/6066.htm

Figured I would post an update now that I got more numbers off of the engine. It turned out to be a 1958, Pass. Car, 250@4400, 355@2800, 9.50:1, 348 V8 , 4 bbl.

Its probubly the least powerfull of the car engines....but thats ok. It will work just fine to run around this little pickup. I'll be stuffing it into this to see if I can get it running again. The engine has been sitting for 10 years but looks to be in very good condition. We will see.

[img]http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/album173/DCP00632.sized.jpg[/img]

Thanks for all the help guys. If anyone needs some LCF parts let me know. [email protected] The rest of it is probubly going off to the scraper in a month or so...so I'm sure you can get parts real cheep or free if you picked them up.

ROB