The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Big Block or Diesel?

Vehicle topic of discussion
(2 ton Truck, towing 12,000lbs - 20,000lbs max)


Obviously the turbo diesels are torque monsters.

But what's a guy to do that just flat out does not want a diesel?

Will I be happy with 700 or 800 ft. Lbs of torque with a big block?

Or will I be kicking myself in the arse for not going diesel?

Thoughts?

The only way you get 700-800 torque out of a big block is to turbocharge. The 502 crate engine has a high of 560 torque so 454's are wimps for sure. Combine this with 8-9 mpg and maybe a diesel isn't so bad. If one stays gas and turbocharges then an LSX crate engine makes 835hp and 760 torque plus will get double the fuel mileage of a big block.

I’ve always driven diesel cars and trucks as daily’s and love them. I normally don’t recommend diesel swaps though unless someone actually needs one. Im a big fan of LS truck engines from the junkyard but in your case I would say your best bet would be go buy a complete duramax van or 2500 truck and use the entire drivetrain. Ive seen all the swaps and driven all the popular ones from 12valves to 24 to 7.3’s(i own) to duramax and the d-max is kinda great at everything and gets great mileage and will do everything you want in your 2 ton. Me and a friend put one in a c10 project truck a few years ago. Its currently pushed in the corner waiting finishing because of other projects but i will say its a pretty nice setup and i was happy with how compact it was for what it is.

In my prior life I worked for a local beer distributor. In the 20+ years of driving we had mostly GM 5000, 6000, 7000 series trucks with 427's, 5 speed x 2 speed. These were plated at 24,000 to 32,000 lbs. Lots of heavy use and short trips in the county - pulled very well. The company then changed over to diesel and we had Caterpillar 3208's and 3116's, 6 speed but I can't remember if some had 2 speed rears. Then they changed to International's with IH 466 diesel with straight 6 speeds/single speed rear. A lot of variables here but they all were designed to pull a decent load. The OTR stuff that I drove of course was a horse of a different color - we max'd out at 80,000 lbs. each night pulling out of the Columbus brew house and headed north. A lot to think about when you are trying to build a truck for a specific job but I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Ya, it just sounds like diesel is the only way to go for my swap. Appreciate the input guys.

i went with the big gas engine in my F^*d. It gets cold up here and I travel a lot without easy access to plugging it in at hotels and the like. Also knowing whatever Podunk station I stop at will have gas. I know it cost me more in fuel but I just like the convivence of a gas engine When on the road.

The 427 we put in a 37 Chevy worked very well but it had a roll back bed and only hauled a 37 Chevy Business Coupe to races and shows. A 54 2T got a turboed Cummins and is a beast. Diesel better for load pulling.

427 in 37 Chevy Roll Back:
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/47y9f7F0/37-Hauler-Don-s-for-sale-86-005.jpg[/img]

Cummins in 54 2T
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/2q66hpFb/IMG-4400.jpg[/img]

Have you given a chassis swap any thoughts? An Isuzu NPR or retired school bus chassis may give you everything you need/want. Better chassis, better brakes, better, gearing, complete drivetrain.

I have, it gets suggested a lot for good reasons.
Not an option for me at this point doing my build 300$ at a time on a budget.
It still might happen, never know a year or two down the road.

For all the work you will be doing and odds and ends to adapt it just look around. I just found like 4 npr trucks that run and drive on marketplace for under 5k. In the long run its gonna definitely be cheaper with a much better outcome. I do totally see how you will get more done with existing parts and $300 at a time but if you save up and spend 4-5k on a chassis that’s already driving and has good power, brakes, axles, complete drivetrain made to just do everything your asking......well you get what i mean when i say you will be ahead.

Not mentioned:
Will a female be a regular passenger?
She can smell diesel a mile away.

And gear oil!

We had 3 NPRs given to us a few years ago by a mail delivery company. They all had something wrong. Engine, trans, rearend. I don't quite recall the specifics. Anyhow, they just wanted them gone. My old man ended up parting them out. He even found someone wanting the remaining chassis. I think one of them went south of the border. Anyhow, there are deals out there to be had.

From personal experience, I can tell you that nickel and diming a build will take you forever to get anything done. Once you figure out what you want to do, just do it. It'll also help keep you from changing your mind a 100 times.

Anyhow, what are you towing that requires 20,000 lbs of capacity?

Here in the midwest you can also find old grain trucks for cheap at auction. Usually they have 366 or 427 tall decks. I've even seen some with 350s and 292s. They didn't do anything fast, but they got the job done.

I think it all depends on how fast you want to tow and how much money you want to spend. Diesels are incredibly expensive up front and when problems arise. Gas is the opposite in my opinion. I’ve owned both and will not go diesel agin because I have no need for them. I’ve pulled a 50’ gooseneck full up with 350 square bales of hay with a 350 small block in a crew cab dually my across several states. Granted it wouldn’t win any races but it got the job done. My 500whp Cummins pulled the same load like it wasn’t there, but cost 5 times more to put together.

I bought a Dodge rollover 4wd pickup, took the 5.9 out, almost broke even on the whole deal, got the engine free.

Ed

A (tall) axle ratio useful for the diesel's low RPM torque may be an extra expense.

When you figure in the price difference between diesel fuel and gas is a diesel really that much cheaper to run?

In my experience, NO. I've been driving Cummins diesel pickups since '95. You really can't justify the additional purchase and maintenance cost of a diesel with fuel cost savings or mpg. However there is a strong case to be made for their longevity and power (make that torque). I've been pulling a 12k hunting trailer over the Rockies every October for 20 years with my Dodge Cummins, at it's current state of tune (300ish rwhp and 700 tq) it does fine. A couple years ago the wife and I used her gas 6.4 hemi 2500 (410 rwhp 430 tq) to pull her 12k horse trailer over the same roads and I wanted to get out and push MANY times as crawled up several passes.

RonR

A detroit 2 stroke wont come close to the fuel millage of a cummings , but it will sound wicked . But again not many of us use these trucks for practical purposes and are just built to ones personal tastes , so go at it , enjoy . At one point years ago my desired power train was a 453 T with jake brake and air start connected to duplex set up but the cost was far beyond my comfort zone .

John

I pulled a gooseneck with gross 20k from Indiana to SoCal in my 2013 ford F250 SD at 75 to 80 MPH with no issues. It has the 6.2 gas engine. Plenty of power and never overheated but at one point I was getting 6.8 MPG, ouch.