The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Fuel pump bleeding

Folks,

1950 216, with 3 spd.

Son borrowed my ute this morning and it stopped on him, we ended up towing home rather than trying to fix it on the side of the road.

Once home we realised it had no fuel, so appears fuel sender is no good, however we filled the tank and she still wont start, the glass bowl is having bubbles appear in with the fuel and is not pushing anything forward.

We filled the carb and she started and ran until carb emptied.

We did this three times but the fuel is still not moving through the fuel pump, is there a bleed process for these glass bowl pumps or is it likely the pump simply died when she was empty.

Thanks in advance

Steve

My experience is that the pump does not need bleeding in this situation or any situation, it’s self priming and will pick up fuel fast.

Just for sanity check, open the gas cap when you try to crank it over with known good fuel level in the tank.

If no gas is leaking out the drain hole under the pump the main diaphragm isn’t shot
And if the pump isn’t working but not leaking that means it might just need a thorough cleaning to work again
The check valves in the pump rarely go bad they just need to be cleaned most of the time.
The cam arm might be worn out or broken but that’s easy to fix compared to the rest of it, assuming you are not shy with the welder

If I was you I would just take the pump out and break it down on the bench
Thorough inspect and clean all parts and reassemble it
That way you know it’s good.
-s

It's possible the pump has picked up debris from the bottom of the tank as it ran dry and the one-way valves in the inlet and outlet of the pump might be stuck open. Try disconnecting both fuel lines at the pump and put a quick shot of compressed air through the pump in the direction the fuel normally flows. Then reconnect the lines and see if the pump works. It might also be a good idea to put a disposable fuel filter between the tank and the pump.
Jerry

So we pulled the pump, stripped it down, it was putrid and full of gunk.

Primed the carby and then started her gain, she ran for 1 minute before she died.

The fuel level in the pump is not getting above the top screen in the glass bowl.

Disconnected the fuel line to the tank and fitted a protable fuel tank up front, primed her and she ran no problems for 10 minutes before we turned her off.

Stripped and cleaned the lines all the way back to the fuel tank with an air compressor, section by section, found a couple of small bits in the line

Started her up and she ran for a little while before she konked out.

It appears the pump pressure (vacuum draw) is very very weak, so short fuel line to tank no issues, long fuel line and its too much for the pump to draw

So still trying to work out what could be broken or blocked

Steve

it was pretty dirty

We also pulled up the bed floor, The fuel sender had a hole in the float and was rusted solid, hence the fuel gauge not working properly, tested the electrical circuit and it was fine, just bad unit.

May have to drop the tank tomorrow and flush it right out as well

Steve

Gunked up gas tank. Needs a good cleaning or replacement.

I had the same issues.
1. Like stated Above, Clean the tank out or replace.
I cleaned mine out. Several times.
2. Add an in-line fuel filter.
3. Since I did both , Zero issues.
You can see the Tiny Crap the filter has caught from tank after the tank was cleaned out several times.

Good luck.

In line filter is the way to go especially if you suspect the tank is fouled up. Easy to look for debris and change filter as needed.

A good mechanical fuel pump must pass three tests- - - -volume, pressure, and vacuum. I've been preaching that gospel for 20-something years on this site, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever followed the proper testing procedure on a fuel pump. I've given up on even trying to pass that knowledge on!
Jerry

Steve,
In my humble opinion there is no way you will ever keep that tank clean. I don't know how difficult or expensive it would be to get a replacement tank in Australia but please look into it. The inline filter pictured above is a good idea but you will be changing that along side the road frequently. I live in Arizona and despite the warm dry climate, once a tank get rusty, it keeps shedding rust particles even after it is boiled out and cleaned. There is a proprietary gas tank process (called Renu) that I used on my Diamond T, which has a unique shaped tank and no one reproduces it. They cut holes in the tank to allow visual inspection while media blasting, followed by braising the holes closed and melting a plastic liner both internally and externally. But this is more expensive than buying a quality reproduction for the Chevrolet trucks.
Kent

Yes, I can imagine it's pretty expensive to get a new tank in Aus. Parts are really expensive here in Canada with exchange, taxes, shipping, etc.

There has been plenty of discussion on fuel tank cleaning on this forum: e.g. https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...-you-clean-the-inside-of-a-gas-tank.html

Let's not forget that Steve isn't dealing with a regular Chevy pickup- - - - -I sort of imagine a replacement gas tank for a Ute is even more difficult to source than a tank for one of our toys! I'd suggest using a big inline filter upstream of the pump, like a fuel injected Ford Crown Vic has, one that's about 3" in diameter, so it doesn't clog up as quickly, and doing a thorough cleanup of the tank first.
Jerry

Thanks for all the info folks,

Going to clean and drop the tank today and yes mount a filter down the back under the tray.

A ute tank is super rare, i thnk they are a copy of the wagon but not totally certain

Steve

Jerry, for the couple of times you have helped me out so far, I can see a wealth of knowledge, as someone new to this forum, I appreciate any info passed on, as a side note I always look forward to any response you give

Steve

Steve, check your private messages- - - -the little flashing envelope icon at the top of the page. One work-around might be a fuel cell like the road racers use. They come in all sorts of sizes, shapes, and capacities, and with a little creative bracketing you should be able to fit one to the space you have available. Most fuel cells are made of a flexible rubber or plastic bladder tank, inside a sheet metal housing.
Have fun!
Jerry

A day later bathed in fuel, what a mess i found, the ute is running now on a boat fuel tank whilst i work out what to do, here are two photos

1 Inside of the tank.

2 Some of the gunk we found, appears they used a sealer on the tank sender and access panel which reacted with the fuel.

You run ethanol fuel downunder?

Not a common thing here in Perth (Western Australia) some states on the other side of australia do an ethanol mix and its becoming more common.

She is driveable on a boat tank at the momment

Congrats on solving your issue. With that much gunk in the fuel pump and tank, you may want to change out the fuel lines also.

If all else fails. Years ago I worked for a truck build shop and we built a lot of gas tanks for trucks, RV,s and tractors and even old rusted out gas tanks for cars and pickups. Go to the local weld shop and see if they would weld one up for you. They can also put the fill and pickup tubes and gauge sending unit holes exactly where you need them.

Thanks, Lots of ideas, ideally I would like to rescue this tank, but understand if I cant, local fabrication is a definete option, appreciate all the suggestions.

I cleaned the pipes out with compressed air, also cut the pipe in an easy access and installed an inline fuel filter

Next weekend, I will pull the tank, wash it out and run a derusting solution in it (metal rescue rust removal), have used this before removing rust on bolts and parts and have to say pretty impressed with the product, can only hope it works sufficiently for this tank

Before was a section of damaged pipe, used the opportunity to fit the filter at this location

When you clean out the tank I would recommend adding a handful or two of some hex nuts. Then add your cleaner and tumble. This will add in the removal of the rust. Worked well on my 49

I have cleaned gas tanks by putting a shovel full of pea gravel and a few gallons of laundry detergent and water inside, sealing up the holes, and strapping the tank to one rear wheel of my tractor. then I go out and bush-hog a couple of acres of pasture. If you don't have a tractor, strap the tank down in the bed of a pickup truck and take a few hours' road trip on some twisty back roads. Don't have a pickup? What kind of stovebolter are you, anyway?
LOL!

There's a product the aircraft industry uses to seal fuel tanks known as "slosh sealer". It's a liquid that is poured into a tank which coats the inside surfaces and glues any debris to the inside. That stuff might be more effective than similar sealers sold for automotive use.
Jerry

Tanks out, washed it, also part way through using some water based rust away inside it. This has shown whats underneath all the loose rust.

Not sure what to do now, clearly someone has sealed it and the sealant has broken down

Might try and find a shop that dips and repairs tanks

Steve

Steve, my vote is for mechanical agitation. I agree on something similar to what Jerry suggested, strap it to a tractor wheel and bushhog or just drive it around for a bit. I could have done same a few years ago, but instead I strapped my tank to the back wheel of the backhoe, raised it up on the stabilizers and let it run for a hour or so (slowly) with a half gallon of nuts and bolts inside. This wasn't a AD truck tank but I do believe that with some imagination the tumbler process will work for you.


Good Luck,

RonR