The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Finally! 65mph @ 2500rpm in my 1.5 Ton!!

If you want to know how, send a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope to ... OK, OK Just kidding.
I am sure many of you have already figured it out, but, hey, I'm from Mississippi, and we are still piping in those brand new TV shows like Happy Days, and McCloud, etc.
Anyway, after going through EVERY scenario on the planet, I came up with a Hybrid Axle.
1/2 Stock and 1/2 Dana 70!

Congrats!

could ya explain?

so when ya gonna send us all the nit picky details for a tech article?

any pics?

-W

I basically researched the ring and pinion options (or lack thereof) to death. My truck is in the gallery under Tim Eastman's 1946 1/2 ton, even though it's a 1.5 ton. Anyway, as you can see, I want to DRIVE it to shows, not just trailer it all the time if the show is more than 50 miles from home. Yada, yada, yada . . .
So, here's what's happening:
I found a Dana 70 with 4.10 gears. (have the option now to go up or down in ring and pinion size!)
I found a guy, (machinist) that is going to (marry) the two together.
I am on my way out the door at the moment, but will try to get specs and pics as this progresses. Also, will keep track of the cost estimate.
Simply put, he is going to re-sline my original axles to fit the dana 70, so I can keep original wheels, but is cutting the 'chunk' out and replacing it with the dana 70.

There is a guy near here who does lots of rock climber 4x4 stuff. It appears he does this same kind of thing. I'll bet most any shop catering to the rock climber crowd could do this kind of conversion.

Well, re-spline generically, but specifically, I need to figure out how to upload photos. A picture is worth a thousand words.
There is some axle sawing going on, not to mention re-flanging and hole boring.
I saw some Stovebolter's putting pics on Yahoo. If that is free, I will try and do that and explain the whole process with pics and diagrams.

Is is MY computer, or is this site slow today???
Anyway, got some pics I think, well, actually I know I got the pics, but I think I can get them uploaded.
First Pic: Stock axle housing with the end cut.
http://img209.exs.cx/img209/6536/mvc279s8fu.jpg
#2: Dana 70 axle housing with the end cut http://img209.exs.cx/img209/3508/mvc280s5ws.jpg
#3: Stock Flange being milled to fit Dana 70 axle housing. This will slip over the Dana 70 axle housing about 6 inches and then welded to give it strength. http://img209.exs.cx/img209/4263/mvc282s3dw.jpg #4: Stock Hub to be redrilled to fit axle studs, this will allow the stock axle to 'marry' to the Dana 70. http://img209.exs.cx/img209/4613/mvc284s5ve.jpg

Timmer,
woo hoo - thanks for the pics!

that is going to be so cool.

keep us up on the progress if ya have time.

-W

OK - next pics in the process.

This is the stock flange on the Dana 70 after being milled to fit:

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/79/mvc294s3ij.jpg and:
this is the stock hub being redrilled to accept the Dana 70 axle.

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/4192/mvc300s9ye.jpg

When you're done do you end up with original brakes, or brakes that work?

Will the six be able to pull the taller ratio at highway speeds?

I'm Done!
OK, yes, I am using my Stock Flange and Drums, so nothing changed there, see pic:
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/9656/mvc301s1rj.jpg
the next Pic is the stock hub, redrilled to accept the Dana 70 axle:
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/7128/mvc305s9as.jpg

So, looking back a couple of post, you can piece the process together.
I have a Dana 70 'chunk' with 4.56 and most of the axle tube, then, I have the stock flange and hub and drums mounted on the Dana 70. Then the Dana 70 axle fits on my stock hub where it was redrilled. Perfecto!

I gave her a test run, (speedo is now off, but was using a 'pace' car for accurate speed).

Since the SM420 has a 1st gear of 7.36 or something like that, I have NO problem starting even on the steepest of hills.

AND GET THIS, I got her up to 70 mph for a short run!! A comfy 55 mph for all day driving.
I still had some pedal left, but at the upper end, it did not have a lot of 'umph' left. Would probably have to down shift to 3rd going up a pretty good incline.

So, I will change the stock carb and intake to 2 carb setup with Fenton Headers and should give it the extra punch to compensate.

MAN - it's a NEW truck, a PLEASURE to drive, no more 35!!! (kinda rhymes)
Timmer

Sweet!

Nice work to all involved... that was good thinking. The things you can do with machine tools...

-W

I missed this originally... Question from Oz... What's a Dana 70? Porbably a different name over here.

Thanks
Jason.

Dana/Spicer Corp. builds final drive axles. Their Type 44 axle is a 1/2 ton rated axle that also fits a few passenger cars, the Type 60 is used in heavy-duty 1/2 ton and/or 3/4 ton trucks, and the Type 70 is used in dual-wheel applications for 1 ton and some heavier-capacity vehicles. Good axles, and they're used by several manufacturers, Foed, Chrysler, GM, and International, to name a few.
Jerry

Jerry, the 44 is also used as a front axle in some 3/4-ton 8-lug applications from the '70s. I'm combining a narrow-track Jeep Wagoneer 44 with Chevy/Ford 3/4-ton hubs to make a stock-width 8-lug front drive axle for my panel.

Hey Timmer, what do you think it would/should cost to do what you did?

Well, the machinist was retired, he is 72, and does this sort of thing to make spending money. I bought the Dana 70 with 4.56 gears for $250 and he did all the work, including installing it on my truck for $600 labor and parts.
I am sure he could/would do it again, but shipping to CO might cost a few bucks.
Timmer

It sure would be a good reason to come down and fish that little pond you folks have there...

I have a Dana 70HD under my 1952 1 ton pickup. it is from an 88 P30 truck. It has 10 lug on 7.25" with a 5.25" hole in the center. I believe if you wanted to use the original wheels from 1.5 or 2 ton you would have to bore out the centers either 0.375" or 0.75" I forget.

So it looks like the same thing on the ends as the original trucks, but it does have 13.5" disc brakes and the option of gears as fast as 3.54 to 1.

I know it is under a 1 ton now, but I set it up with 2.5" springs as if it were under a 1.5 or 2 ton. I am currently looking for one of those with good sheet metal and I will switch my running gear over and then probably go with dual wheels and not my singles.

I am also running the same disc brakes up front and a new hydrobooster for the brakes and power steering too. Still a 235 6 for now, in the future I am going with a 4 cylinder diesel.

It is a very dependable truck, I drove it around the country last summer, about 8,000 miles, with only a broken fan and bad generator bearing to slow me down.

If I can figure out how to add a picture I will, any ideas?

Grigg,
click on the following link and follow the instructions for uploads.
It's free.
http://imageshack.us/
timmer

Hi Grigg,

Am very interested in seeing some shots.
Is the width of the axle he same as the 1 1/2 or 2 ton trucks or did you have to shorten it?
88 P30?? Chevy?? Never heard of one over in Oz, maybe came here under a different name.

Cheers
jason.

OK, for the rear it is 66.25" from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface on the Dana 70HD from the 1988 P30. I did not shorten it. to put single wheels on it I used 5.5" of backspacing on a 6X19.5 rim (7" overall with of rim). This makes them fit perfectly centered in the wheel well.

I don't know the measurements for the 1.5 or 2 ton trucks, I don't have one yet, any one want to get that measurement?

To make the axle fit I had to move each spring pad outwards exactly 1" (spring centers of 42") then it works with 2.5" springs as on the 1.5 or 2 ton. If you wanted to use 2" springs like on the 1 ton you would only move them 0.75" each.

On the front end I narrowed a 1994 Chevy 3500HD It started out 79" from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface, I narrowed it 10.25" to have a new measurement of 68.75" and a track with of 60.25" (center of rim to center of rim).
Can someone measure the track with on a 1.5 or 2 ton? I know it is slightly wider than my original 1 ton axle was.
I think these are the right measurements for what I did on the front from going back to my notes when I built it, but I am a little fuzzy, I better go check to be sure what I did.

A P30 truck is really just the chassis that is sold to be put under bread trucks and RVs, that sort of thing, it is a Chevy. Rated at about 1.25 tons I think, but not sure, could be 1.5?

If I were to use the 6X 19.5 wheels, like I have on the front, on the rear the overall with would be 83.75, and the measurement between the inner rims would be 49.25" (these rims have 8.5" of back spacing) and the 8X19.5 tires I used are about 33" tall.
How does this all compare to a 1.5 or 2 ton truck?

for a few pictures check out the
Dana 70HD and GAWR
thread

more pictures at

http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/mullen_grigg_1952.htm

Great truck, I love the paint job...where did you come up with the idea for bright yellow? It looks great

Not much of it left, (the paint) but it runs good none the less.
Not sure what you mean about the bright yellow? could it be my faded flames put on with a lumber crayon? They were a friends idea, he jokingly said I needed flames, I held him to it......

Interesting alternative to driving 55! Thanks for the great info and please keep us updated as a lot of folks here are always looking for gear options.

Great project & notes. What did the Dana70 come out of?

Woo Woo (siren) But officer this truck cant go that fast in a 55mph zone, it only goes 47mph topps , I swear

are you saying you got pulled over for doing 65? thats awesome if you got it up to 65-DVZ

hmmm, couldn't get those two to come to life.

What do you mean, this thread now 6 years old won't come to life??

Here's a tech tip from a couple years ago with how I did my axle swap.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/bigbolts/p30swap/

And here's a thread on how I'd do the front axle next time

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=725027#Post725027

Back to the original method discussed in this thread, using old spindles and brakes on a new axle.
I've seen it done a few other times but in most cases it doesn't make sense to me, there are easy to swap complete axles that give you better brakes too. Swapping a whole axle is a lot simpler and cheaper than cutting and welding a couple different axles together.

Grigg

Been a while since I checked this thread, but in the meantime, I did come across some measures that might be helpful. Don't have the actual wheel-to-wheel measures, but the '46 Chevy Trucks book does indicate that the inside fender-to-inside fender width for the 1.5 ton is 87-15/16" for the dually. Centerline-to-centerline for the outside rear wheel tread is shown at 75-1/2 when 7.00x20's are used. And the front tread (again, centerline-to-centerline) is 58-1/2 with the same wheel/tire combo.

Seems I signed up for stovebolt at just the right time... I just blew the original 2 speed rear end out of my 2 ton 49 chevy.
Looking for the best upgrade options.

regardless of what rear you put in to obtain that speed listed in the topic is an accident waiting to happen if you didnt upgrade the suspension to something modern including the brake system!!! i have my hands full when i hit bad road or traffic at 50 with any of my trucks which are all stock. if your using your truck for hauling as i do, the handleing issue is then compounded making it more dangerous at that speed. if you want to go that fast in a bigger truck then i suggest you think about buying a new truck or approach the route grigg took with his 48 with front disc brakes and a air ride susspension (which ive seen up close and personel) and stay away from that speed until you do. you cant stress the safety of it enough. learn the limitations of your trucks so you dont kill someone or your self!

I am in no way discounting the benifits of disc brakes (wish I had 'em) but I think drum brakes often get a bum wrap because the technology has been around a while. Big trucks have been using drums at highway speeds for a long time. I think where the problem lies is that so often we concentrate on making our old trucks go that making them stop properly is ignored. One shouldn't just drop a new engine in a worn out old truck and be done with it. In my opinion drum brakes that are properly restored/rebuilt/adjusted (and designed to stop a truck at max gvw)should certainly be capable of safely stopping a lightly loaded truck on the way to a show going 60mph. Of course the suspension/steering needs to be in good condition as well.

Well said.

One complication is a truck is a truck and people tend to use them as such. Making an old truck go faster also requires better brakes to be able to stop a load.
They were built to stop fine with a load from a moderate speed, increase that speed and they will not stop as well as they need to.
Sure it'll probably be OK with the old brakes when empty, but who needs a truck you can't safely haul stuff with?

Grigg

Been a while since I checked this thread, but in the meantime, I did come across some measures that might be helpful. Don't have the actual wheel-to-wheel measures, but the '46 Chevy Trucks book does indicate that the inside fender-to-inside fender width for the 1.5 ton is 87-15/16" for the dually. Centerline-to-centerline for the outside rear wheel tread is shown at 75-1/2 when 7.00x20's are used. And the front tread (again, centerline-to-centerline) is 58-1/2 with the same wheel/tire combo.