The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop S-10 Swap

I know some of you think I'm a little nuts for trying to get my truck done by my wedding, but I've decided to give it a fighting chance. So, I'm looking for anyone that has used the AD Engineering Kit or done the swap on their own for some advice. I'm planning on using the kit due to limited skills and limited time.

Let me know anything you think worth while! Anybody that has used that kit, I'm really looking for some advice here (pitfalls, trouble spots, etc.).

Thanks again to everyone!

Bump.
I have'nt any experience with the kit, but I do know a thing or 2 about S10s. Good solid trucks. you'll want the long bed std cab for the base, should be able to find an early ('83-'85) with a rotten body cheap. One problem area with them on suspension/steering is the pitman arm, they tend to wear rather quickly.
I can pass along a few tips. 1, find a late ('98-'04) 4 door 2wd Blazer and strip it for the rear axle and front spindles, this will get you an easy and cheap 4 wheel disk brake upgrade using easy to get factory parts. Another tip is if you do lower it, you can use shocks from a '78-'85 Malibu or '78-'88 Monte Carlo. You'll achaive a better ride (shocks from the lowering kits are too stiff) plus again, their cheap. Those parts directly interchange with the S10.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the quick responses, keep the comments coming! I would like to keep this post rolling as I start my efforts. This weekend I hope to continue to strip the truck down. I have the bed off and started on the front fenders. I'll try to start to post some pics so you can follow where I'm at in the process.

Bill.....I knew I wanted a regular cab long box, but it's been tough coming up with one that I can get to. I woiuld prefer it to run so I can use the drive train until I have the time and money to upgrade it. I mostly want it to move. But, my question for you is about the 2wd Blazer. My understanding is that I want the brakes from the Blazer, but I need a 4wd rear end to compensate for the narrow 2wd S10 rear end??? Am I missing something here???

Thanks again for all the help and keep the tips coming! Anyone that has used the kit out there?

You could use a rear from a 4x4 4 door Blazer or pickup, on the pickup a ZR2 rear would be preferred, to get the same rear disks. The ZR2 has a beefier rear end, being essentially a narrowed full size truck rear. I would advise against using the 4x4 front spindle without the 1/2 shaft in them. The nut on the 1/2 shaft is what holds the preload on the bearing as well as holding it together. I have seen them separate by being run without the 1/2 shaft in place. If you do go with the 4x4 chassis, swap the spindles out to the 2wd spindles, or swap to the '98-'04 style with the 2wd hub assembly that is designes to run without a 1/2 shaft.

so why not just use the 4x4 blazer chassis and just stretch it to whatever length you need?

You could do that, but using the std cab long bed S10 gets you the correct wheelbase without having to stretch the frame any. It's simply much less work to go that route. The wheelbase of the long bed S10 also corrects the approx. 2" discrepency in the centering of the rear wheels in the fenderwells that the stock AD chassis has.

I measured the S10 chassis my truck is sitting on and it measured 123" C/L of the spindle to C/L of the rear axle. Is that the frame dimension for a long box S10?
I just bought this truck and have no way of knowing what truck they used.
It appears to be correct, but the bed is not mounted.

The regular cab long bed has a 117" wheelbase, I think yours is from an extended cab truck.

I think he's right, you must have an extended cab.

That's a great idea to use a rear out of a ZR2. I actually hadn't thought of that and from the sounds of it, it will make the rear pretty stout. I didn't think I could use a Blazer rear. Is the width of the Blazers the same as the 4WD's or is it just the brake assembly I would want?

I'm sure them meant a S10 Blazer, not the fullsize ones.

Yes, I did mean S Blazer. The specs are the same as pickup. If you can find one, the 2 door ZR2 Blazer has the same brakes and axles as the pickup, but they aren't very common. You'll want to look for the later version, about '98 or newer to get the heavy axle and disk brakes.

The ZR2 is a S10 Blazer-98 and newer?
Didn't GM sell an off road package S10 pick up???
Wonder if that has the beefier rear end.
From what I read hear I need a 83-85 long box S10 chassis,98-04 S10 Blazer 4 door front spindles and disc brake rear, or a 98-?? ZR2 2 door S10 Blazer disc brake rear end because it has the beefier rear.
Is this correct? Does the ZR2 have the heavier spindles also? Thanks for your help.

Before I begin my long winded speach from my soap box about the famous S-10 frame swap, let me first say the information I'm about to share is based soley on my observations and personal experience on the subject and that's about it. Take it for what it is.

I'm in the process of finishing up the body work and painting of my 1952 1/2 ton pickup which I mounted onto a S-10 frame. I used a frame from a regular cab, long bed S-10, then I added the full ZQ8 sport suspension from a late model Extreme, consisting of front and rear lowered springs, gas shocks and fat sway bars. I also installed dropped spindles to really get it down in the weeds. I'm running a slightly warmed over GM 350 crate motor, dual exhaust, a 5 speed manual transmission with hydraulic clutch and a Camaro Z-28 rear end with 3:42 gears. The truck also has a tilt wheel from a late model JEEP and a bench seat from a late model Chevy pickup and 1 pc. door glass with power windows. I chopped it 1-1/2 inches and removed the windshield center divider bar and wing windows to give it a cleaner look. And lastly, I'm painting it gloss black.

Okay, up onto the soap box I go. First off, for those who who are new to this hobby or have never done anything quite like this before, let me just say this isn't a quick and easy, slam the old truck onto a new S-10 frame and drive away deal. It will help if you have the means to design, cut and fabricate metal parts and be a decent welder to safely complete a swap like this. Yes there is a kit out there to mount the body to the S-10 frame, but that's really about the easist part of the whole swap, and if you can't make those simple brackets, you're in for some surprises ahead. Also, I do know all about the kits available to install brake boosters, pedals, etc. but if you are planning to go that route you better have really deep pockets.

Okay,lets assume you got the truck safely mounted to the S-10 frame. Here's all the rest of the swap that you nobody ever tells you about. You need to mount a steering column to the dash and floor and connect it to the steering gear box. Install a brake booster and brake pedal and reinforce the firewall to prevent it from flexing. Install a parking brake and run cables along with new brake lines. The engine needs to be set back a couple inches towards the firewall to provide room for that radiator you'll need. A new transmission crossmember also needs to be made along with a custom made driveshaft. The stock S-10 rear axle is to narrow so you need one from a 4X4 pickup truck, Camaro, etc. The late style Blazers 4X4 rear also works if you want a disc rear end. You'll need to decide what to do about the gas tank, use the stock S-10 pickup location or use a Blazer tank mounted at the rear or a use a custom tank. Exhaust is another item on your list of things you need along with 12 volt gauges and all new wiring front to rear. Some of this stuff you can buy and some you'll need to build or have built.

I have done all the work on my truck in my garage at home. About the only thing I didn't make was the wire harness and the drive shaft. I also have been happily working on it for four years with the body work taking the longest. With that said, the S-10 frame swap does work really good but other options should always be considered based on your level of experience, how much time you have, and of course and how much money you have to spend. Regardless, you should always have fun!

Rcik S, welcome aboard! Good response you've got there, you really hit on many things that do need to be considered when doing an involved swap such as this one. Even with the extra work, I personally would stil go with the S10 route on an AD truck to update it, rather than subbing. Either way, you still run into many of the same issues, though. I would rather use a frame that I don't have to cut in half to make it work.
More clarification on the ZR2 thing. The ZR2 package was sold on both S10 pickups and the S10 Blazer as an off-road package. They came with oversize tires (31x10.50x`15) the 4.3 V6, usually automatic (I have seen some with the Getrag 5 speed). The '98 and newer also came with 4 wheel disk brakes, same as the 4 door S Blazer, and a modified full size truck rear axle.
I have seen maybe 1 or 2 2wd S10 pickups with the 4 wheel disks, too, only as an extended cab. Not very common.

Adding to what Rick said, I'd take it another step forward regarding the cutting of the frame. That is a nothe item that is the least of your work. The s10 frame is really thin and I cut mine with a harbor frieght grinding wheel. 5-inch C-Channel fits VERY nicely into the existing frame rails.

This is all great information. Could someone respond to my previous questions about years and models in this same post. I want to get my salvage yards looking for the necessary parts.
Thanks.

Great information guys. Most of this I had read before just by doing searches, but some of it is new and you can't beat first hand information.

Sounds like most of you guys didn't use the kit. Is there anybody out there that has???

Thanks Joe and everybody else. I am on a mission to find all of the above parts.
Thanks again,
Jeff

This link shows how to lengthen the wheelbase of a shortbed s10 to make it work under a 47-54 Chevy Truck.

As for s10 rear ends:

2wd rear ends are 54-3/8" wide
4wd rear ends are 58-3/8" wide
ZR2 rear ends are 62-3/8" wide

(Measured wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface)

FWIW,

I investigated the S-10 swap, even have a nice low mileage '97 rolling chassis sitting next to my '48.

Not liking front wheel spacers, or the AD engineering solution, I am building a front cross member for the stock frame using the GM Metric locating points. This cross member will be an either/or bolt-in or weld.

S-10's were built from the GM Metric chassis (78-88 GM midsize) parts bin. Same spindles, brakes, uppers and lowers as the GM metrics with minor changes in the upper a-arm mounting points. however the S-10 has the narrower 54.38 track width to match the original Izusu (Chevy Luv), the GM Metric has the 58.38 and the S-10 4x4 has the 54.38 requiring front wheel spacers. I have even investigated widening the s-10 suspension, and have a method to do so, however that is more work than current plans.

Long story short. I will be using the 8.5" rear from an S-10 4x4 with my new cross member and all new aftermarket uppers, lowers for the front with '98 or newer blazer spindles with dual piston brakes. (FYI - GM metric chassis are the foundation for most stock cars driving arround the country)

adding some S-10 axle background - S-10's prior to 1988 had the 7.5" ring gear. 1988 started the 7.63" ring gear with what I believe is the 28 splined axles. The 8.5" ring gear is a shortened GM corporate 10-bolt. Either way, the same 7.5", 7.63" units were in camaro's and firebirds for years. The 8.5 is beefier because it is bigger.

Scott

Scott,

Great idea - I'd love to see some pics. I always wondered why nobody sells a S10/ G body IFS crossmember. It seems like the parts would be a whole lot easier to find than the MII setup.

Will you be using s10 style steering with lengthened center link or a rack and pinion?

This guy makes a kit that looks like it combines a MII style suspension using & a GM spindles...

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/pu4.html

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/

Dont know why people dont supply it, guessing the Rustang 2 front end is the "staple" of the industry.

I will be using a new Metric center link, however i do have a GM rack from a corvette. I will be using the truck as test bed to see what works best. As I get stuff done, I will post.

S-10 vs Metric vs Gen 3 camaro seam very similar for steering. So I have a little investigation ahead of me as I happen to have front suspension from all 3 sitting in the shop.

If people would be interested, I would even consider making x-members to help fund my project.

Hi,
I'm new to the forum and thought I could assist with any questions you may have regarding the use of the AD-Engineering kit.
My son and I purchased the kit and are in the process of mating a 53 GMC to a 82 S-10 frame.
The kit is real well done and the directions are good. In addition, if you have any questions, AD-Engineering is on th spot with quick email replies and added photos if needed.....great guy!!!
Everything is lining up real well and the truck looks great on the frame. As noted on the website, the body sits a little high on the frame, but it needs to in order for the bed floor to clear the frame. It's no big deal, all you need to do is purchase 3 inch lowering blocks for the rear and 2 inch lowering spindles for the front and everything will look cool.
Can you do this swap without the kit? Sure you can, but if you're like me and never done this sort of thing before, it is nice to know you can count on someone like AD-Engineering for assistance, as well as those of us who are doing it. AD-Engineering has done all of the home work for you and has cleared the path for this to go realatively smooth.
If you have any specific questions, let me know and I'll help.

Regards,
Jeff

has anyone used the s-10 extended cab frame for the 51 short bed swap? I have an 87 s-10 ext cab 4x4 frame and body looking to be part of something better in life. I have done research and relize that this frame is longer and will need to be shortened. I have the ability to cut and weld this part of the project. Hoping that someone has done one that can shed some light on any problems that we will encounter.

Jeff, Is it possible to see your installation in person? I live in Delaware and see that you are in South Jersey. I have a 51 sitting on an extended cab S10 frame. It will have to be shortened and I would like to see how the AD-Engineering kit looks.
Jeff Kane

Hi Jeff,
I can't believe that we accidently ran into each other this weekend. It was real good meeting you. I hope your visit to my garage to view the AD-Engineering kit on Dayne's 53 GMC was helpful.
Let me know how you make out.

Regards,
Jeff

Hi All,

I posted some photos of my son's 53 GMC utilizing an S-10 standard cab, long bed and Advanced Design Engineering kit.

Check 'em out!!

http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/rhondayou/

Jeff-Glad you and Dayne are still making progress. You guys are extremely talented-keep us all posted on your progress.
Jeff Kane

Cool Website, and great information. I'm new to the forum, but have been an old Stovebolt-er for some 17 years now. I've been working on a 50 for several years now and went through the subframe, and extended frame process with it. I'd been thinking about doing the S10 swap on either the 49 3 window or the 54 Panel, and you guys have provoked some thought. Not many around these parts that get this creative to swap experiences with. Thanks again for all your input and look forward to future interaction.

Hi Jkane,
How are you making out with your truck. Have you decided which way you're going to go with it?
I recently went to the scrap yard I was telling you about and found a couple of nice s10 standard cab-long beds there.

Hi All<

Posted more photos of the steering column mounting, as well as the look of our custom grille for this old GMC.

Check it out.
http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/rhondayou/

Jeff and Dayne,
The truck is really coming together great. I can see Dayne's fabrication just keeps getting better and better.
Keep us posted with your progress.
Jeff

Hey Rick,

What kind of trouble did you run into around your steering box and header clearance if any? Everyone I have talked to here local have complained about the lack of room when mounting the V-8 in the S-10 chassis, and how much more room and how much easier the process is to subframe with a camaro or monte carlo. I still haven't made up my mind what to do yet and am still gathering info before I dig in really deep. I have a short bed s-10 frame, 4wd rearend, a long bed s-10 complete truck minus the motor and tranny, and a pontiac grand prix 198? that I believe is pretty close to being a possible subframe donor.

This is what I did, BUT i have a 425 Caddy motor in my project using a S10 frame along w/using a FWD steering column w/a cable operated column shifter...Joe

Caddy Motor

I just used the rear dump exhaust manifolds from a 305 V8 '86 El Camino (same as Camaro). It's a tight fit on the drivers side by the steering shaft, but has plenty of room on the passenger side.

it looks tight....but pics are decieving. There are so many options to do for these old trucks to update the suspension that it is hard to decide, especially when you are in the situation that I am in...I can go either way (subframe or frame swap) for about the same money.

That is what everyone is telling me....that the drivers side is tight. As long as it isn't tight enough to cause heat problems on the headers I will be able to live with it.....I like the s-10 option a little better I think because of the variety and cost of aftermarket suspension options that the swap opens up vs. the subframe option. But at the same time...that extra room to go with different headers and performance exhaust options has to be considered too. Decisions, decisions, decisions. I am the kinda guy that will study and research everything and then usually end up choosing the worst possible way to go but figure out a way to make it work anyway! Thanks for the info....you guys and gals on this forum are great!

Oldbowtie,

I did a lot of research in the header department and here is what I found.
I first looked at the S-10 V-8 headers and although these headers would have made navigating the steering linkage from the steering column to the steering box much easier I did not care for the looks of the one, long swooping header tube that allows the steering linkage to travel through it. This type of header would have required a large relief area to be cut out on the drivers side inner fender to allow the tube to clear, and compromising looks for the added function was not worth it.

I then looked at the block hugger (Ram Horn) style. This style came too close to the upper A-Arm bushings on the S-10 chassis and felt that the heat may start melting the bushings out.

Finally, I purchased shortie, Headmen Headers from Summit, Summit part# HED-68600. The driver side header tucks nicely toward the engine block clearing all of the suspension bushings and allowing for a decent navigation of the steering linkage. The steering linkage will require 2 lenghts of steering shaft. 3 U-joints......1 for the steering box, one for the steering column, one to join the 2 steering shafts. The steering linkage will also require a stationary eye-bearing. No cutting or alteration of the driver side inner fender is needed. One of the header tubes on the passenger side does come a little close to the inner fender, and minor alterations may be required to clear it from hitting and/or burning any paint away from the inner fender. Nonetheless, I found these to be the best look, not to mentiong the 3-bolt exhaust flange and 3" exhaust opening.

Rhondayou, I would really love to see a picture of your header and steering setup. I am working on a 46 half ton with a 350 in a S10 frame.

Frank