The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay What's the trick to a comfortable light switch insall on a '51?

Now that I've got you chuckling, I'm just wondering if there's a 'better' way to do all the work on removing and installing my light switch in my '51 3100. Seems I've been up there before, connecting or disconnecting wires, and it was a nightmare. I just watched a youtube video of a couple of guys who had a dash on a table, out of the truck, changing one out. That lasted about 2 minutes. Getting all those wires labeled and off in that tight cave of a spot is bad enough. Hooking them back up is going to be hell on my back and fingers, not to mention my chronic headaches.

I'm actually still trying to get the valves and timing right, but I've had battery troubles (a battery that couldn't take all the false starts and dragging of the engine, although it was 5 years old, to be fair, then a NAPA replacement battery that failed) which have kept me from getting it out to warm it up before I start that procedure. Anyway, I got my new battery in, and so I checked it by pulling my light switch on, upon which the knob and stem came out in my hand. Now I'm wondering if there may be a short in the switch or a loose ground or something. Anyhow, I've already got a replacement switch in my stock, so I figure I ought to replace it. If anybody has any suggestions, I'm taking all of them.

Yes, it would be a pain-in-many-body-parts trying to attach/remove the wiring on the light-switch in-place.

I did it once.

I think that the last two/three times that I have rewired/wired light switches, I did the following:

Remove the old switch with wires still attached:
1. Disconnect battery cables
2. Remove light switch button rod (as described in the Shop Manual).
3. Unscrew light switch "cap" (on the outer-part of the light switch).
4. Move/manipulate the light switch downward under the dash.

Disconnect (and later connect) leads with the switch hanging-down behind/beneath the dash.
Then, place the light switch back into its position under the dash.

Would someone who has done this recently please let us know if what I described above is possible (or, if my instructions are a "pipe dream").

Thanks,
Tim

I've been mulling the idea in my head of possibly tagging the wires, disconnecting them, and then adding about 6" of wiring to each one in order to be able to reconnect everything out in the open, then zip tying the wires up under the dash after re-assembly. I think it was the ammeter wire or something i had to work on or re-install about 5 or 6 years ago, and it had me cussing a blue streak. I know it's not going to be fun or easy, but i'd like to make it as calm and non-painful as possible. Thanks for the suggestion, Tim. Lee

Get you some barrel nuts (I think that’s what they are called) to replace the regular nuts. Easy to manipulate with your fingers.

While a good idea if there were studs on the switch, unfortunately, the connections take screws. I don't remember right now if the terminals are ring or fork, but if ring, that makes it even more difficult to get the screw started standing on your head. Sometimes I even forget which way to turn them when I'm upside down.

I think the question is how to swap in a new light switch. Is that the question?

If it is......... what Tim has described is the obvious procedure. Done by everyone and their brother. So I reiterate: Replaceable electrical items always have a "service loop" (extra wire length to hang down) for access without crawling on your back. Tim is spot on. This is a very easy procedure. You simply replace one wire at a time so as not to get confused....or make a drawing..........or whatever.

Chanced are that there is enough slack (service loop). Just untangle/manipulate/stretch/hang where possible and swap the wires. Should be able to do it sitting in the seat or leaning in on the floor.

Ring tongue is mandatory.

. . . . . .

yes - nicely stated

I dimly recall that I learned to wear tight, strong, flexible gloves - to keep from cutting my fingers/hands on sharp edges of metal under the dash?

Well, I got in there for awhile last night until it started getting dark (and cold) outside, and I got the switch out and tagged the wires, using blue painters tape and numbering the wires clockwise. Bartamos, yes, that was part of the question. I wasn't sure of how the switch was connected, never having taken one completely out before. After watching a video on youtube, I heard one guy say they were on a nut, and then checking my shop manual, I saw the threads on the front of the switch and understood. I first tried spinning the old switch body, but I thought about those old, fabric wires and squelched that idea quick. I grabbed my vice grips out of my bag and clamped (lightly) onto the face of the stainless dash nut and it came off easily. That was my initial question. I asked later about how to do the job 'comfortably', remembering the back, neck and headache I got working under there last time.

justhorsnaround- yeah, that would be nice, but as Kevin said, they're screws, with flat plate keepers that have a bent tail that fits into a tiny hole behind the threaded screw hole. Not only are they tiny, but unless you've got a magnetic screwdriver head, you're screwed. Or maybe unscrewed, I should say. Also, somebody mentioned whether they use fork or ring fittings, and all of my original fittings are fork. Only the new ammeter wire I installed is a ring fitting, and I have to say it's turned out to be the real pita so far. So much that when I quit last night, I had already gone in and gotten new fork fittings for it and another wire (my old fabric dome light wire separated from it's old fitting as I took the switch out.)

The wires, although they aren't long enough to bring out and do 'easily', they are allowing the switch to hang below the bottom level of the dash, anyway. And with the delicate condition of some of those old wires, I think I'm going to just re-attach everything as-is.

It's a nice, gray, cold, breezy day out today, around 29* last time I checked, so as soon as I get done with my oats and coffee I'm getting back out there and finish this thing. My headache was pounding so hard last night, I couldn't even think straight. Even though I had plenty of light under the dash, I called it for darkness (of my mood). Today is a brand new freezing, windy, winter day though!

Some good news on another front (and another post) is that I fired it up before I got started with the switch yesterday, and it started the first time and came as close to purring as I'd heard it in a while! So, when the switch is done, it's on to taking it for a warm up drive and then it's valve adjusting time! Woo-hoo!!

Just a suggestion, but would removing the speedometer give you a better access to the area you're working with? Sometimes a little more disassembly is to your advantage.
Jerry

The speedometer is a big pain to remove as well, but it would allow better access. Probably not worth doing that IMO.

Yesterday I was able to get the switch changed out, but it took me most of the day. I ended up adding on to one 10ga wire, which was the shortest and came about 4" out of the loom of wires up in the corner. This allowed me to hook it up down in the open. Then I worked my way around clockwise. Not sure what that one goes to, but it went to the hot bar that the ammeter connects to. I also cut the ring off the ammeter that I thought was such a great idea when I replaced that wire years ago. I say to anyone who has to work on replacing or re-wiring your light switch, use fork fittings instead of rings! Those tiny little screws and the plates with the tabs make it a major pita to deal with, especially when laying on your back and trying to get your right arm up over the pedals and then up through the mess of wires, steering column and brackets. What fun!
And to make things a little more interesting, or a method that will stop confusion, I marked the new switches terminals 1-10 with a sharpie and then used blue painters tape and marked the wires of the old one before I removed them. Then, as I was hooking up the wires to the new switch, I couldn't find wire #3 anywhere. ??? I checked and re-checked, but it wasn't around. There were two sets of terminals that had two wires each, but they were marked correctly. Come to find out, and this is pretty sad, I for some reason skipped (3) on the new switch. There were no #3 wires, so that took up about 15 minutes. The biggest concern I had was when I was shoving it back up through the mess of wires and then twisiting it a quarter turn to get the notch in the hole lined up, fearing the old dry-rotted cloth wires would break. But when I got it back in everything is working well and there was no smoke or sparks anywhere, so it seems the job is finished. I will say that for being in the 20's and 30's all day, I wasn't as cold as I expected to be. Plus, my wife made me a tall glass of hot chocolate with some brandy in it, so that was like a warm blanket when I'd get out of the cab for something.

One last thing. As my neck got sorer and sorer (is that a word?), I utilized one of the grandkids rubber Spiderman balls, about 8"d, for a head and neck rest. It had enough air in it to be a good pillow, but it was deflated enough to not be hard. Worked out pretty good, and my neck ache was immediately gone. I'm sorry to say that this is the best advice I've got as a help from this job. That and, per this task, anyway, If it works, don't fix it! Up in that corner under the dash is a place you don't want to be. Thanks everybody for your advice and help. Sometimes just the moral support is enough to keep me from throwing down my tools and walking away from the old bomb.

showme I hate to bend all those old cloth covered wires ,think they are fork terminals so that helps,sounds like your getting there. Ilearned how to lube the switch by putting a WD40 tube into the switch and sprating on the way out ! This saved having to change one !

I really didn't plan on changing the switch at all, until the knob and stem came out in my hand! And kept coming back out after I stuck it back in. Then after I got the new switch mounted, I compared the old knob to the new one, which I've had for about 6 years "just in case" (same with the new switch), I'd decided the old one was heavier and had more stainless in the outer ring, but before I put it back in, I found that the knob is now spinning on the shaft, which pretty much renders it useless for the dimmer. So, due to the thing coming out at just the right time, instead of later on the road, I went ahead and put in the new ones. I could have just put in the new knob, but we all know how that works- neglect doing it now, and you'll be doing it tomorrow anyway.

If the stainless ring spins on the bakelite part, remove the knob/shaft and hold it upright while carefully drizzling a little acetone in the center. Wipe off any that you get on the center dot using a cloth made damp (just damp, not dripping) with acetone. The acetone will swell the plastic inside and restore your knob. Method 2: set the knob upside down on a piece of wood, have your wife hold it for you and with a tiny screwdriver tap the back side of the stainless ring 3 or 4 times evenly spaced. This isn't my favorite fix, though. Carefully is the operative word here. You just want to make 3 or 4 small divots. If the entire knob is spinning on the shaft, just remove it, set it upside down and carefully put some JB Weld clear around where the shaft goes in the knob. Why clear? It tends to flow into cracks better, remains more flexible and to me seems a better bond between metal & plastic like materials.

As for replacing the headlight switch, Jerry is right. Remove the speedometer and you'll make the chore easier. Remove or slide back the gauge cluster and you'll make the chore a literal walk in the park. When you replace the speedometer, go to your ACE or True Value hardware store and buy 4 small wing nuts to replace the regular nuts. You may need to file the ends of them if they're too large, but you won't have to remove more than about 1/16" on each ear. If you ever have to remove the speedometer again, you'll spend a lot less time and you won't need to stand on your head.

If your going to remove the speedometer, it helps to remove the radio grille, that is if, you don’t have a factory radio.

An alternative to the wing nuts was to use brass knurled nuts to replace the mounting nuts on the gauges. this, I learned from another “Bolter” on this forum. My apologies to that “Bolter” for not remembering his name.

I've had to do the headlight switch too. I pulled it out and let it drop down. That was long ago. Now I'm going to have to go under the dash to clean up years of abandoned wire from various accessories projects and I'm dreading it. This whole business was much easier when I was in my twenties, which is the reason for the abandoned wires. For my setup a major problem is the pedals. I notice that one can unbolt the part that goes through the floor and either let it drop to the floor or take it out entirely. That should help. I'm not anxious to take the speedo out because that requires removing the choke cable. Long ago I made a short 9/16 wrench by cutting a combination wrench in half. That helps lots but it's still not easy. It's really crowded under there because I added air conditioning, electric wipers, and aftermarket radio and speakers. It's even worse than my 98 Suburban but at least with that it's possible to get the dash out; but not fun.

My advise to anybody who has to work under the dash is to think about all the things that will need to be done, then take it apart so you can get at stuff and do everything all at once and hope you don't have to do it again in 20 years because it'll be much harder then. I've done it piecemeal over the years and every time it's harder. I may not be able to do it at all this time, we'll see. Certainly not until the weather warms.

For a complex redo under the dash I would consider removing the seat assy and lay a cut lengthwise sheet of plywood down to lay on. Prop the loose end on a couple of jackstands or blocks. Save your neck and back.