The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 230/250 Rebuild Where to Start?

I was given an engine SN 3921968 Chevrolet/Oldsmobile (64-72), 230/250. It came with a 3 speed manual trans.
I have a 1954 Chevy 3100 with original engine/trans and torque tube. End goal is swapping the original engine/trans for the one tat was given to me. I understand that I will need a new rear end and update the electrical to 12V for the alternator but I have a few questions for the experts out there. I don't plan on doing a full rebuild on it... although I guess it depends on what it looks like once I get it apart. I was told it ran like a sewing machine when it was pulled....

1. What is the best kit for gaskets to make sure it is sealed correctly?
2. What do you recommend for cam and lifters? Does anyone have any for sale?
3. Any tips for a newbie before I get started ?

I appreciate any input or recommendations y'all might have

Anything less than a full teardown and rebuild on a 50-year-old engine is a poor choice, if you intend to do anything at all to it. How does it run now? Unless you're able to do a run test on it, including getting it up to normal operating temperature and running it under load at cruise RPM for several miles, the best you have is a "rebuildable core" that needs to be torn down to a bare block and reconditioned accordingly. That can be anywhere from fitting new piston rings, rod and mail bearings, plus a valve job, to reboring the cylinders, new pistons, regrinding the crankshaft, and installing a new cam and lifters, etc. The rebuilding cost can vary from several hundred dollars to several thousand, depending on your ability to do some or all of the work yourself, to hiring it done, including machine work. I do all my own machining, but I've got 60+ years' experience at it, and a shop full of machine tools, including lathes, milling machines, welders, a bead blaster, a valve seat and guide machine, and a crankshaft grinder. Most hobby restorers with the possible exception of Denny Graham, aren't quite that well equipped!
Jerry

I don’t have anywhere near your experience but I do have some experienced people who can help. I understand what you are saying about doing a complete rebuild. Is there a company out there that makes a kit? Or what company do you recommend I buy the parts from?

Try to find a local parts supplier you can deal with, rather than trying to order a "kit" that comes from some vendor who might be located several states away. The small cost advantage of a rebuild kit from a remote supplier can evaporate pretty quickly if there's any sort of a problem to deal with. Very few local parts guys want to get uncooperative on a return or trying to resolve a mistake when I'm at arms' reach across the counter- - - - -instead of dealing with some computer jockey or phone order taker a few hundred miles away in a cubicle.
Jerry

yeah the guys at the local auto-zone will accept returns on parts I altered to try to make work unsuccessfully some very obviously hammered on or drilled out or have you. They are always very nice and helpful. I recomend buying whatever you need through local vendors as opposed to online (unless they don't can't get the part you need delivered to the store).

My "go-to" supplier for rebuild parts over the past 30-something years has been Nashville Engine Parts Warehouse. They're part of a company that has several locations in the southeast called the Internal Engine Parts Group. They mostly cater to professional shops rather than hobbyists, but the people I deal with are consummate pros at what they do. Yes, I can beat their prices on occasion, but the service they provide makes up for the small added cost most of the time.
Jerry

Scrub your new motor up nice and clean. Build yourself a little engine run stand. Get the motor on your stand, remove the plugs, hook up a battery to the starter and give it a compression test. If the motor has good compression, give it a tune up, change the oil, hook up a gas can arrangement and get the motor running on the run stand. I have seen run stands made out of wood and metal. If it runs like a sewing machine like you were told, you are off and running. start making up front motor mounts and rear motor mounts and install it.

Taking it apart at this stage will not tell you anything really, except maybe something really obvious and catastrophic.

Where in Texas are you? It is a big place and your location could work in your favor or against you...

I am in College Station, which is not ideal for old cars and trucks. Most people online buying and selling parts are a minimum of 2hrs away.

Thanks for the information Jerry. I will take a look at Nashville Engine parts and see if I can work something out. Not trying to break the bank on this engine but it would be nice to update my truck a little bit.

It looks like their Baton Rouge LA store might be closer to you than Nashville, plus it seems they now have an online store. Of course, that takes away some of the "in person" relationship of dealing with a local vendor. The Nashville store is only 60-something miles from my home, and I've been dealing with some of their counter guys for well over 30 years. You might also need a business name to get the best price quotes.

http://www.enginepartscenter.com/about.html

Jerry

An original 1954 1/2 ton will have a 235 which is a good engine. If it was me, I would keep it all original until I was in a situation, place and had finances to build it the way I wanted it to be. Safety comes first. Good brakes and good steering is absolute top priority. After that, chew off a little bit at a time. Before you take on replacing the whole drive train, read the Stovebolt forums about topics of what others have successfully done. Learn from other member's tastes, experiences and mistakes before you lay out the green. For example, if you want to stay with an in-line six (no V8 hotrod) and maybe want more expressway speed then look into the popular topics like S10 five speed transmission, disc brakes, finding the perfect rear axle ratio/rpm/mph/tire size.

Lou,

You have a bunch of Texas guys on here. Might help to jump into the Texas forum and introduce yourself. I know the San Antonio guys get together every other week. Maybe the guys up there will come teach you a few things like the ODSS guys did for me.

Chris

The 235 runs great but I would like to be able to go a little bit faster. I don’t necessarily want to go with a sbc so I thought an updated inline 6 with open drive shaft and rear end would give me the little bit I needed. I am assuming it should bolt right in unlike the sbc where you have to made modifications.

It will not bolt right, motor mounts and crossmember just like a SBC. Use the engine you have with a newer transmission and rear axle, it will be a lot less work. Someone will come along and tell you what bell housing to use, the rest of the driveline is pretty simple.

Lou, did you see in my earlier post where I noted that you would have to make up some front and rear motor mounts if your 230/250 ran good, well I was not kidding. The rear of the 230/250 is like a small block chevy. To put that motor in, you will have to make up a cross member arrangement (if you are going with a later module transmission) or bellhousing mounts if using the standard transmission without a cross member, and source an appropriate bell housing as the 6 bell housing will not swap. You will then have to deal with the attendant clutch linkage, and starter set up. The 230/250 also uses side front mounts. Those mounts are not the same as your current mount so you will have to make up new mounts. And that is just the beginning. Nothing swaps between the two motors with the exception of the generator and maybe the transmission. So its not just a bolt in swap, a little more complicated.

Mike, I thought you were saying to just get new mounts. I just sold a 47 3100 that had a sbc and I did engine and trans mounts on that. I was hoping to not have to get that involved with this one. I will have to look into this some more. I am glad you guys mentioned the mounts I may have over looked that. I guess my decision is to use the current engine with the newer transmission and rear axle or just pull it all and put in the new one. I think I will have time to dig into it this weekend.

Thanks for all the insight. I definitely would have overlooked a few things without everyone's advice.

I feel your pain making this decision. The following are some brain spasms to give you and idea.

Typical issues when keeping stock drive shaft and rear axle - Torque Tube:

1.) 2X Bushing replacement (Oakie Bushing easiest) & ball housing gasket. Not fun to do. Use GM service manual. Experience definitely helps. Will still leak a bit (nature of the beast). Everybody puts a drip mat underneath an original Stovebolt.
2.) 1954 rear axle ratio usually 4.11-to-1 or 3.90-to-1. Your 235 engine will high RPM at 50/60 mph (nature of the beast). The engine will start dropping torque after 2500 RPM. It's a personal taste but around 2100 RPM is highway cruising speed. See Deve's website for 3.55 highway gear conversion. This is doable but then good experience is helpful to do this properly. Getting the gearset to mesh well is tricky. Search Mothertrucker for one source to purchase the gearset. Hopefully you don't have to replace $$$ bearings but the seals may need replacing. Use a handheld GPS with a MPH function if you speedometer is on the blink or not accurate.

Drive shaft and rear axle replacement - Conventional:

1.) 1954 1/2 ton width inside flange-to-flange 60" to 62" but measure yourself.
2.) Chevy trucks beginning 1955 2nd half year, rear axle is wider. Appearance issue with tires to fender opening.
3.) Old school replacement options. Early Camaro, Nova, Chevy rear axles. These axles are hard to find and may be worn badly (may be money pit).
4.) Search 9" F@&d for new parts solution. $$$.
5.) Typically you end up with a rear 5 bolt wheel pattern and may wish to convert front axle to 5 or buy 6 bolt rear axle shafts.
6.) You can reuse your old leaf springs but may need to fashion or weld-in new axle saddles (search the forum).

Transmission:

1.) Old school is Saginaw 3 speed or 4 speed (maybe your 230/250 transmission). Synchronized first gear desirable. Final gear ratio is 1-to-1. First gear ratio options (2.85, 2.54, 3.11, 3.50, count rings on input shaft). 1st gear ratio X rear axle ratio to obtain about 9 or 9.5. Too low (example 2.54 X 2.73 = 6.9), ride clutch to get truck moving. Too high (example 3.11 X 4.11 = 12.9), jack rabbit. Calculation to determine engine RPM. RPM = (MPH X transmission final ratio X rear axle ratio X 336) / tire height. There are tire websites that have tire size calculators to make number crunching easier.
2.) Current manual transmission trend is S10 5 speed. Sorry, you will have to search for info but it's easy to find.

That is definitely a lot to think about but I appreciate all the information. That is a lot of good details that I will look into. I was wrong when I assumed everything would just bolt right in and be an easy day. I will do some more research and will hopefully get started this weekend. Thanks again.

Lou54,
I have installed a 230 and later on a 292. As other have said, it all depends on how you want to mount your engine and trans. If I remember right my 235 that came with the truck was mounted with a front mount below the harmonic balancer, and the the mounts on the bellhousing. This is how I ended up mounting both my 230 and my 292, forgoing the side motor mounts. Since I went with the SM420 trans, I was able to keep the bellhousing mounts and not have to worry about a trans mount. Luckily I had a friend who had a rear end from I believe a 55.1 truck (which had the open driveline), so I was able to swap that over for a near perfect fit. If you went with a more modern trans (like the T5), then the mounting situation would have to be figured out for that... something I may or may not end up doing way in the future.

For my 292 rebuild, I went through my local machine shop to get some of the parts (bearings, reconditioned rods with ARP bolts, pistons/rings, oil pump, etc). I went through 12bolt.com for cam/lifters/valves/springs and lumps for the intake ports. Local NAPA for gasket sets.

There is a lot of good info on these motors out there, 12bolt being a good source for info and parts. Leo Santucci has a power manual (focuses more on the 292, but does have some good info generally).


Feel free to message me for any additional info you might be after, I'll do my best, but I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as some of the others on here.

Thanks for all the information. I will definitely reach and send you a message if I get stuck. From what you posted and the other guys on here I will have to look into the mounts to see what is going to work best. I believe my rear ended is out of a 55.1 and what I have read is gears are 3.90. If I can get all this together I will go to the local driveshaft shops and have one made. I am going to try to get started this weekend... but sometimes life happens so we will see.

To make sure, which one do you have?

So you made the 230/250 engine mount at the front under the timing cover? If so how did you do that? Thanks1

I have a torque tube but want to change to an open driveline.

Lou 54 Ihave had several of those sewing machine specials .It makes you feel pretty good when you can doctor one-up into a pretty good piece without spending much ! Especially if your just gonna use it local. With most blocks you always run the risk of sand holes when you bore it too !

Lou 54 On your torque tube I used to use a tri-five car rear end ,easy to put in then use car hubs to be 5 bolt then lotta wheels available punkin easy to change ! Also learned to set a v-8 in there get just a palm thickness between the firewall and the passenger side valve cover !