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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,660
B
Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,660
I picked up a Rochester B for spare parts and was surprised to see the handiwork of "Mr. Evil Pliers".
* The Idle Needle hole was enlarged and a strange needle installed.
* The throttle plate was drilled with the hole located above the needle hole.
* By adjustment, the needle can extend out into the throttle bore quite a bit.
* The carburetor was originally made for a 261 Chevy Truck (7015013).
* The main jet was changed from a 64 to a 57.
I checked part numbers and measurements, for the remaining parts and they agreed with the 7015013 Rochester Carburetor Specifications listing.

Questions:

1.) Purpose of modification?
2.) How to restore modified Idle Needle Hole?
Attachments
Modified 01.jpg (30.62 KB, 79 downloads)
Modified 02.jpg (26.89 KB, 79 downloads)


"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use."
"I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 620
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 620
Uuuuhhh! This is a question for CarbKing, Tim or Martin. At least whoever did this it looks like they stayed with Rochester/ Carter. I have an old set of jet stones but. A 261 uses a Rochester B, aside from the metering valve attempting any modifications to a B is futile. The long needle looks a little like a Holly that my cousin modified to put on his Sunbeams that had 265 and a few 289's. I've got nothin. Really I just answered to see the what the pro's say. Doc.


Currently making 1954 3100 better than new and Genetics
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,767
C
Carburetion specialist
Carburetion specialist
C Online: Content
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,767
Jerry - this is the reply to your PM.

First - I have never seen these modifications to a Rochester B, so cannot give you a definitive answer.

Having said that, historically:

(1) Various companies have provided throttle plates with holes of varying sizes since the 1930's for at least two different reasons:

(A) As an idle air bypass. The fuel provided by the idle circuit is proportional to the air velocity of air passing the idle discharge hole in the throttle body. If the air volume required at idle is sufficiently large (huge camshaft, or large displacement engine) to cause the throttle plate to be open further than the optimal opening for maximizing the air velocity, idle quality will suffer. The hole in the throttle plate allows a certain amount of idle air to flow through the hole, allowing the throttle plate to be adjusted such that the velocity of air flowing past the plate is maximized, thus creating sufficient negative pressure in the idle circuit to allow sufficient fuel to flow. This picture may help with the understanding of air velocity:

[img]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carter_multiple_venturi.jpg[/img]

This is the main venturi, but the same principal applies. This was a lab exercise in the Carter Carburetor School. One can see the glasses of water, and the water head drawn by the negative pressures at different points. Fuel flow is dependent upon air velocity!

(B) Pontiac provided throttle plates with very small holes on the end carbs of some of the tripower setups. The purpose was to allow a tiny amount of fuel to bleed through the end carbs, keeping fresh fuel in the carbs.

(2) Opening the idle discharge hole is a performance only modification or an attempt to make a totally wrong carb work on an engine. Not saying it is never necessary, but in 60 years of working on carburetors, I have personally never had to do this; have always found a better way.

(3) The long needles have been tried with the extension used as a deflector to break up the air stream; generally on vehicles designed for low end torque, and low maximum RPM.

In the "for what its worth" category, if I saw modifications like this on any carburetor, I would assume other modifications had been made; and, unless this were a Duesenberg carburetor or a Ram Air IV Pontiac carburetor, or others in this range of difficulty to locate and value, I would scrap it and start with a different core. If the carb is Duesenberg or the RAIV Pontiac where the customer is independently wealthy, and can afford the labor, I would totally strip the carburetor and compare each component against the original manufacturer's blueprints. This a a VERY time-intensive process.

Jon.

Last edited by carbking; 11/16/2020 2:47 PM.

Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify.
If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
The Carburetor Shop
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,660
B
Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon
B Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,660
Thank you Jon.

My thought is that this modification was not done by a professional but the modification parts were purchased from a company that maybe advertised a performance purpose. Most likely a multi-carburetor setup. Attached is a picture showing external-added manufactured (not shade tree) parts.

The throttle assembly is ruined. The air horn and bowl are surprisingly not warped yet. I'm currently measuring and studying the other Rochester B weak link, the power piston and it's well. My plan is to test another 7015103 so I can have a comparison baseline before I switch over to test a few Carter models.

My first test of the B was initially decent but I think the power piston stuck in the up position when I parked the truck for the night. Very hard to start the next morning.
Attachments
Modified.jpg (251.16 KB, 19 downloads)

Last edited by buoymaker; 11/16/2020 5:30 PM.

"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use."
"I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."

Moderated by  Phak1, Woogeroo 

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