The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Baffled, was running then just died....

I’m at a burger joint, got my burger at the drive through, parked to eat the thing, truck is idling, the it dies. Now it won’t crank! It is a Chevy C10, 1966 with a 250, has a quarter tank of gas, a one barrel Rochester carb, electronic ignition in side the original distributed, recently replaced (2 months) fuel pump, spark plugs and wires. It has never done this before!

"Pertronix", right?

Thought so!
Jerry

Hy Lawman, welcome, so are you saying once it died you couldn't get the engine to crank over in a attempt to start? If that is the case then check your electrical connections at the battery and starter and your grounds as well. Does anything electrical work?

"Won't crank"- - - - -engine doesn't spin over with the starter, or "Won't start"- - - - -engine turns but refuses to fire and run on its own? The diagnostic procedure is entirely different for those two situations, so please give us a little more details about what's actually happening.
Jerry

Ok, got the truck running that evening after it sat about an hour. Didn’t do anything to it except check gas flow, distributor and reset plug wires while it wouldn’t crank, all fine and But no change as I tried in vain to crank it. The battery was fine, it would turn over and over but not crank . I was baffled by its behavior so I posted on my phone to the forum. Then After waiting for an hour she cranked right up. Still don’t know why or what was wrong. Driven fine since then, but it has been stubborn when cranking after the engine is warm....cold starts are no problem.

Then it happened again yesterday. Running fine, sitting in a parking lot on idle it dies again and refuses to crank. This time I just waited about an hour trying to crank it every 10 min or so. After about an hour waiting it just cranked and ran fine....did have me worried all the way home, what if it did that at a busy intersection or traffic light?

So I guess I can’t just pass it off, gotta try and figure it out, but I am stumped, so I’m back looking for advice. Its a 250, a recently rebuilt Rochester 1 barrel carb , practically new plugs, wires and fuel pump. Problems are hard starting when warm and this mysterious dying and not starting seemingly until engine cools. Any ideas where to look?

HR Lincoln....I see what you mean. My problems are hard “start” when engine is warm and mysterious engine stopage and not starting until waiting about an hour. The engine cranks and cranks, so the battery is strong. :-)) Help!

You need to determine through testing one of two things. When it dies and won’t start does it have fuel getting to and through the carburetor? When it dies and won’t start does it have spark at the spark plugs? Both of these tests require a helper to crank while you watch under the hood. I suspect a spark issue like a bad coil or condenser but you must test don’t just throw parts at it. Good luck.

Edit: I reread your first post and noted you have a hacked up distributor so disregard my advice on a bad condenser.

Couple ideas:

If your HEI conversion setup uses a GM ignition module then I'd check there. They can do weird stuff.

Hard starting when warm could be ignition timing being advanced a bit much. Or maybe a heat soaked starter

There's a terminology barrier here

What kind of electronic ignition do you have installed inside you stock distributor?

If you do a search of the site archives for "Pertronix" you'll find numerous examples of similar problems. If that's the brand name of the electronic ignition conversion you have, get used to being stranded at unpredictable times. What starts out as an intermittent "no start" or sudden stall will turn into a total failure to produce a spark that won't correct itself.

I'd recommend obtaining a spare distributor with points and a coil to swap in when (not if) the current ignition systems fails for good and does not recover after a cool-down period, and carry it with the vehicle at all times. Also, it would be a good idea to become familiar with the process of swapping those parts on the side of whatever road where you find yourself stranded. It might be a good idea to pray for good weather when it happens, also!
Jerry

And/or, add a ground wire from a distributor-cap clip screw (on the distributor) to a convenient screw on the block/head. Pertronix units need to have a continuous good/clean ground.


Pertronix or original-equipment - I recommend carrying a spare/tested/adjusted-set distributor in your truck/cab - I have had condenser failure more often than never having a Pertronix failure.

Nonetheless, I think all my Stovebolts now have points/condenser - original equipment.

Ok, more info...you asked what electronic ignition module I have. It is a 3DEL6V1 ordered from HotSpark.com and I put it on back in December 2016. Fit right into the existing distributor. You can see it at Hotspark.com still, I don’t see any reference to Petronius there. It was the model matched with my distributor.

When I put in the electronic ignition I also upgraded the coil as was suggested with the conversion kit. The coil is a BERU ZS 172 12volt.

The engine timing is set at 8 degrees before top dead center, if those little timing marks are 2 degrees each. The engine runs smoothly at that setting.

Petronix not Petronius. Dang spell checker!

Good luck- - - - -electronic ignition conversions with proprietary electronics have a long history of intermittent stoppages due to overheating followed by normal operation after a cool-down period, or sudden, catastrophic failures to function. Do you also draw to an inside straight in a poker game?
Jerry

The Hotspark appears to be a Pertronix clone or the other way around. Put your points/condenser back in. More reliable.

I’ve decided to take the advice to go back to points and condenser. I had to order parts to get there, so the old gal is garaged until next week. I thought the electronic ignition was a good upgrade. Live and learn, I guess. I’ll check back in after a period beyond the unconversion to let you know if this fixed the problem. I’ll be back sooner if it didn’t, fer sher. ;-)

Martin, Jerry, and Tim, thanks for the help

There is a better way to do electronic ignition- - - -the General Motors HEI system that was used on mid-1980's and newer 250 and 292 inline sixes can be adapted to stovebolt engines with just a little machining on the housing to make sure the oil pump drive engages properly, as long as you also have a 12 volt electrical system. There was a huge amount of research and development done by GM before introducing that system, it was in use for several years, and virtually every local parts store carries repair parts for the factory HEI system. The distributor housing doesn't look original, but it actually works, and GM designed it to be idiot-proof, even if the ignition switch is left on accidentally. The signal amplifier that replaces the points in a HEI system doesn't begin to flow any current until it senses a signal generated by the reluctor as the distributor begins to turn as the engine is cranked.
Jerry

I want to keep the original look, so going back to points and condenser. it was good enough for 50 years (1966 to 2016) on this truck. I went for the upgrade when the points needed changing figuring I wouldn’t have to change the points ever again. The module sat inside the original distributor so the look was the same. Worked great until it didn’t. Can’t afford to be stranded somewhere or have it act up at a bad moment. I have drawn to inside straights before, but not in traffic. :-0

Thanks again fo r the help.

Please contact me before buying a new condenser. I'm in the process of making totally new condensers which will be extremely accurate and probably outlast you. And to date nobody has tested one in a 250. They mount just like original and match the capacitance your system was designed for. The accuracy will keep your points in good nick for a lot longer than the condensers you get today...which are made in another country and honestly speaking are surprisingly primitive. So far everyone who has tested one for the 235 tells me it works great...and it should. This isn't a solicitation for sale of ANYTHING. Send me your name and postal address in a PM and I'll send one at my cost when I return from a little trip.

There's a way to retro-fit a point-type distributor for the early 250 with a reluctor and a pickup coil for a MOPAR slant 6 and use it to trigger a remotely-mounted GM HEI ignition module. It's not a bolt-in fit, but it can be done with a minimum of machining. That setup would be far more reliable than any of the aftermarket conversion kits, and still have the advantage of using non-proprietary parts with the resources of major manufacturers' R&D behind them. The MOPAR six distributor repair kits are available on Ebay.
Jerry