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#13830 01/14/2004 7:12 PM | Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 Member | | Member Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 | I'm using a dual master cylinder and proportioning valve from a 1985 S-10 Blazer. Big reservoir is rearward and feeds the front disk brakes. I don't know if this is expected but I also don't understand it...when I push on the brake pedal with the reservoir cover off, the rear reservoir squirts upward big time, enough to get all over the place. I've looked at some diagrams of typical master cylinder cross sections and all I can think of is that the primary piston seal is leaking bad, allowing fluid destined for the front calipers to leak backward and squirt up the reservoir. This happened on the original cylinder I used and also on a new "made in china" master cylinder from my local O'Reilly's. The primary piston is supposed to push the secondary piston (to rear wheels) and I don't think this is happening based on the fact that I'm having a hard time getting brake fluid to the rear axle. And for some reason, I can't get fluid to the rear axle even with my Mity Vac. I'm confused. | | |
#13831 01/14/2004 8:11 PM | Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 | It sounds like you have a blocked line somewhere, or a wheel cylinder full of debris. | | |
#13832 01/14/2004 9:40 PM | Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 962 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 962 | Did you bench bleed the M/C? Ive always seen M/Cs spray fluid with the cover off. The one on my LeMans race car will splatter the underside of the hood with the cap off. Check lines and porp valves for damage or blockage. If the M/C pistons arent retracting all the way due to binding or mis adjusted linkage, it could keep the system from operating properly.
Preaching the Hot Rod Gospel according to the 4-stroke apostles:
Suck, Squish, Fire and Fumes
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#13833 01/14/2004 9:48 PM | Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 Member | | Member Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 | MC and prop valve are new. Looks like I need to: 1. remove the MC and see if the seals are OK. 2. bench bleed the MC.
I've never bench bled a master cylinder because I don't understand why air is removed any more effectively pumping the thing while clamped in a vice versus pumping it while installed. | | |
#13834 01/15/2004 1:22 AM | Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 86 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 86 | I'm having the same problem with my dual MC install! Let me know what worked for you.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#13835 01/15/2004 3:27 AM | Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,177 Red dot, center of chest ... | | Red dot, center of chest ... Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,177 | Originally posted by SoTxBoTi: MC and prop valve are new. Looks like I need to: 1. remove the MC and see if the seals are OK. 2. bench bleed the MC.
I've never bench bled a master cylinder because I don't understand why air is removed any more effectively pumping the thing while clamped in a vice versus pumping it while installed. It isn't really, but one thing I've found that helps is to have someone pump the brakes and then crack the lines on the m/c to bleed those. That will get rid of air in the m/c a lot faster than trying to push it all the way to the wheel cylinders or calipers. If they bubble at all, keep doing it until they quit. (You don't have to back the lines of much. There's plenty of pressure.) | | |
#13836 01/15/2004 4:01 AM | Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 70 Member | | Member Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 70 | The reasn you bench bled it ,is why push all that air thru the system bench bled it, install on vehicle, make sure res, is full place cap on top, open lines at master cyl, have someone push down pedal with lines open , when they get to the bottom close lines, repeat till no air comes out usally 3 times snug up lines, now you should have no air in master cyl and lines to wheel cyl. If you want to be sure now bled wheel cyl one at a time starting from the one farthest away from master | | |
#13837 01/15/2004 3:02 PM | Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 Member | | Member Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 | Does anyone bleed their brakes with a Mityvac? I'm using it but I always have a hard time telling when the air at the bleeder nipple is from the system or air leaking past the nipple threads. | | |
#13838 01/15/2004 3:06 PM | Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 Member | | Member Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 264 | And I still can't understand why brake fluid shoots up from the rear reservoir. Why not the front reservoir too?? Once that piston seal passes by the opening to/from the reservoir, there should be no fluid shooting up. Maybe they're designed to do this for some reason and it is something I shouldn't worry about. But, inquiring minds want to know... | | |
#13839 01/15/2004 8:18 PM | Joined: May 2003 Posts: 328 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: May 2003 Posts: 328 | Every master cylinder that I have ever worked with has squirted fluid up. My brother was helping me work on my Blazer once and was being a real smart [censored]. I asked him to check the brake fluid level, and when he took the cover off, I stood on the brakes, and he received a face full of brake fluid. Once his eyes stopped burning, he appologized for being such a smart [censored].
Phil
Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into your brain...that is where crappy ideas come from.
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#13840 01/16/2004 6:22 PM | Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,773 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,773 | Originally posted by SoTxBoTi: Does anyone bleed their brakes with a Mityvac? I'm using it but I always have a hard time telling when the air at the bleeder nipple is from the system or air leaking past the nipple threads. I've never used one, but the way around this is to maintain a vacuum while closing the bleeder screw. That way if you are sucking in some air, it will not return to the wheel cylinder. I'm like Phil on the squirting, never had one that didn't. Not sure, but I think it's the overpressure valve doing its thing.
Fred 52 3600 69 C-10
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#13841 01/18/2004 4:38 AM | Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 39 Junior Member | | Junior Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 39 | no fluid to rear sounds like the check valve in the proportioning valve is stuck in one direction. This can happen if you have one side or the other open and you push down on the pedal hard. Is you valve the one with the electric switch to tell you if the brakes are bad? when the valve moves it lites up the brake light if it is hooked up. Sometimes they will not come back to center and have to be replaced. Loosen the lines to the valve and check for fluid. Retighten the lines then loosen the outbound lines from the valve and check for fluid when depressing the pedal.
There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it can not be overcome by brute force and ignorance.
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