The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Starter? 54 235 12 volt conversion

HI all. Let me start by saying I'm still learning how to fix things and troubleshooting. I recently bought this truck in February, three on the tree, step starter...1954 3100 1/2 ton 235ci with 12 volt conversion. My question is regarding the starter as it needs to be replaced. I've read forums on a 6v being okay on this year if the 12 volt conversion has been done. I've read about fly wheels matching up and some taking out the solenoid out 6v and converting to 12v. Basically I'm confused on what I can go with and wanted to see everyone's advice. I have some pictures attached and noticed on the bottom of the starter "951." I can't find anything to tell me what I currently have so I can buy another one. Thank you!!

Howdy, I am near where you live. You don't have a "solenoid". You have a foot switch. Your foot switch needs replaced with what is called the "side terminal" type. Maybe that is what you are calling "solenoid". Do you see a big white ceramic resistor on firewall? As far as starter, you may be jumping the gun on needing a new one. You may want to tell us what is wrong with truck or how you know it's the starter. If you do need a starter, get the same as you have. It may have a tag on it that you can't see, which will help. If it is 6V, it is OK to replace with a 6V. Russ,I think we were communicating by email back in May? About Ebrake and carbs and ballast resistors? Maybe from an ad I had on craigslist.

The Welcome Center is is not really the place for questions. Only about 1% of our members even come here after the initial introduction. Your question would have been better served in the Electrical Bay Forum. Fortunately bartamos was cruising by and can answer your needs today. In the future please use the garage forums to get more answers.

I'll move this to the electrical bay.

Hello! Yes...that is me again from our communication about the brake! Great to hear from you again. Well I can tell you this....when I step on step starter it just spins, meaning never turns over the engine to keep it running. I'm in the process of looking for a new 1barrel Rochester as I took mine off and the person said it can't be rebuilt. Are you saying the switch is bad and need to be replaced, not the starter? And to add I don't see a "side terminal" on the switch. Thanks again for reaching out.

Your starter has a oval tag on it just below the switch we’re the battery cable is hooked to It looks from your picture it is painted over but it should have numbers stamped into the tag.Sounds like your starter spins but is not engaging the flywheel.Might be a good idea to check flywheel teeth and bendix on the starter

Russ I'm not saying what is wrong yet. We do need to get info to give you a good guess. So that is what we are doing. You will be the one who finds the problem with our help.
1. If it spins nice it means the "motor" is probably good.
2. If it does not make a noise, like teeth slipping on teeth, let us know that.
3. If it truly just spins, Do this: WITH BATTERY NEGATIVE CABLE DISCONNETED, get under the hood and operate the foot lever and watch what is happening or not happening. Maybe it's just the linkage. The levers can have worn pivots or broken or springs missing. Something like that. The pinion gear is supposed to press against the flywheel just before motor spins. Then it's forced to engage. So your test may show the pinion gear pressing against F/W or if teeth are aligned, it will mesh with flywheel teeth.
4. If it looks like it is mechanically "tight" and is engaging, then next test is with battery connected. That needs some safety measures. Report the static test first.
5. As said you could have worn teeth but I would think it would have made a loud noise. Not just a spin noise. Please advise.
6. As Kevinski said, it very well could be the bendix/clutch. The piece between the spring and the pinion gear. That would appear as the pinion engaging flywheel but pinion not spinning, gears not slipping but clutch slipping, one half of the clutch turning and the other half not. The whole bendix is available for $25. "Fun" project.


Take off the negative battery cable until we figure out your other issue. Which is the starter/ignition wiring.

Here are the question for that issue.
1. Do you have a ballast resistor? Show us it's wiring.
2. Tell us exactly where the two smaller wires on the starter mounted switch are going.
3. Are there any other wire on that switch other than those two and the battery cable? Am I right that they are all on the switch battery stud?
4. Confirm you have a 12V battery. Who did the 12V conversion and when?

Hello I have a 1954 chevy 3100 the 1954 had a 6 volt flywheel I think 1955 chevy went to a 12 volt flywheel the number of teeth on the flywheel determine if it is a 6volt or a 12 volt flywheel. Both starters have the same number of teeth . A true 12 volt conversion the flywheel needs changed to match the starter gear. Sure you can put a 12 volt starter on with a 6 volt flywheel yes it mite work for a while but sometime it will engage sometime it won't! It will make a grinding noise. But you can put a 6volt gear on a 12volt starter.The bottom line is how many teeth does your flywheel have on it Been there done that !!!!!! Chambers auto elect in Mississippi a great starter GUY!!!!

Thank you all for the responses. I'll try my best to answer the questions and again a novice on this. When I hit the step starter in the cab it sounds as though something is spinning but not engaging. I do not hear any noises like slipping but more so what Kevinski said...not engaging the flywheel. That said how can I check the f/w teeth or bendix? Take it off? As far as negative cable off and under the hood to operate foot lever....I didn't follow. Sorry By "fun" project does this mean more trouble than its worth and buy a new one? Thank you

What we are all saying is: If the clutch is OK, then the pinion will engage, and then if teeth are bad on pinion or flywheel it would usually be a a clicking grinding type noise. Trying to engage but teeth slip and clutch kicks pinion back and forth.

If the clutch is bad or the linkage is messed up, the pinion will just rub on the flywheel and spin. If the pinion is loose on the shaft or if the shaft is loose on the clutch, is will also just spin. We can guess no further by sounds you hear. There is always that chance that motor is locked. You need to do some investigating on your own with the info and suggestions given. We are in a blogging mode now, we can't pin down the cause any further from our house.

Fun (in parenthesis) just means the fun depends on your ability and whether you think it's fun to work on stuff like that. To me is is "fun", relaxing, educating and rewarding...unless it all goes south on me. Ya ne'r know.

Negative cable off of battery, disconnects the battery. This is so that when you investigate the lever/mechanism, the starter won't try to start the motor or truck jumps forward or something burns up while you determine if the culprit is the mechanism as I described in my other post. Look at it. Look at what is going on if you can. The next step after that would be to watch it with battery hooked up and in neutral, with ebrake on, distributor disabled and a helper. These take a good flash light and maybe a mirror and maybe crawling around.

After that it's take it to the bench and examine. After that it's a new/rebuilt starter or install a clutch for $25 as I said. That is the normal general path for DIY trouble shooting.

Starters... for starters.... there are two separate actions. The first action is to move the starter gear out (aft, relative to the vehicle) to allow the starter gear teeth to mesh into the open space of the flywheel teeth. On a foot starter, this action is entirely mechanical and requires no electrical power. The second action is the starter turning, which is initiated by the depressing of the starter button. This permits electrical current flow and allows the starter gear to spin, in turn spinning the flywheel, and eventually starting the motor.

When you disconnect the negative cable from the battery, the starter will not turn. After you disconnect the negative cable from the battery, open the hood and look at the starter. There should be a lever integral to the starter, along with a spring and linkage to return the foot switch assembly back to the 'starter disengaged' position. Push on the lever and verify that it engages the starter switch to fully depressed position. If the starter switch is fully depressed, then you may have a broken bendix inside the starter, which requires replacement. To verify, remove the starter and actuate the lever. When actuating the starter lever, the starter gear should physically move from the retracted position to the extended position. In the extended position, the starter gear should nearly touch the nose of the starter body.

It is possible that the 12v conversion was performed incorrectly, in that a 12v starter was installed and the larger 6v flywheel was not replaced. This may cause similar behavior. However, let's troubleshoot one step at a time.

Looking again at your picture ,I see you have the flywheel cover off .you may be able to look with a flashlight from underneath and see if the starter drive gear on the starter meshes into the flywheel when you push the foot peddle ,you would need a helper and disconnect battery and block truck so it won’t roll when underneath.BeSafe.you can also mark with chalk the flywheel and turn motor over by hand and count and inspect teeth on flywheel ,although with no grinding or noises it is probably a starter engage problem.enjoy

I wil read up on this to see all the parts you are mentioning. I will say sometimes when driving and I'm at a stop...I will step on the clutch and shift into first it will make a crunch/grind noise if that makes sense. Could be a separate issue but thought of that when you said "clutch." Has occurred on a occasion going into second but not often. It has also popped out of second while driving the truck. I'm sure hoping I didn't buy a lemon as this was something for my father and I to enjoy. I wish covid wasn't here so you could see the truck in person "bartamos." Thanks again

You didn't buy a lemon, you bought an old truck. All of them are ongoing projects passed from one person to another. This is what you take on as an owner. This is what Stovebolt is for. To turn you into a mechanic of sorts, provided you enjoy the "hobby". All of our newer vehicles will have problems from time to time also. The difference is that these old trucks are much simpler. Usually "easy" and cheap to fix. You will get used to figuring out things and getting them handled. We can help most times. Some people are lucky enough to have all the work done by a shop. Wealthy enough to have the whole truck completely restored by someone. Not too many come to Stovebolt. Even if you have never worked on cars and trucks, the simple, old school, practical, well designed trucks covered here are the best ones to learn on. It's never too late to catch the bug.
Once you get the starter figured out, you go to the next thing. No rush. If it starts to get you down ,or too annoying, or to intimidating, then it's time to sell it. It's not your bag.
As far as your transmission goes, it is cheaper and faster to find a complete transmission, put in a new clutch and throw out bearing and move on. Not a good idea to rebuild or have it rebuilt. Too many good donors out there. That's a later discussion for another new post.
Plenty of experienced members here. Some were actual automotive instructors like Hot Rod Jerry. Good stuff. Practical DIY fixes. Other methods like buying new parts sometimes or having a mechanic fix something, is absolutely kosher if you can't do it. Might be one of Jerry's students from 90 years ago.

Here is an old post by Hot Rod Jerry. It goes to show that everybody is saying the same thing that he said. Independently.

"OK- - - -so the starter armature spins, but the flywheel doesn't, right? You're going to need to do a little more troubleshooting, as there are two very different situations that can cause the problem. The starter drive has a one-way clutch built into it that can fail, allowing the starter shaft to spin with the drive gear engaged into the flywheel ring gear, but not turn the engine. The other possibility is worn linkage pivot points that allow the starter armature to begin turning before the gear gets to the flywheel. Does the starter grind occasionally? Or, does the engine start normally on occasion?

Take the sheet metal cover off the bottom of the flywheel, shine a bright light up toward the starter, and have someone step on the start pedal. You should be able to see if the gears are meshing properly. If so, and the engine doesn't turn, replace the starter drive.
Jerry"

Not sure if you solved the issue yet, but i just replaced the drive (bendix, one way clutch....) on my starter as it was turning the engine over very slow. I pulled the starter, put it in a vice, had my son engage the starter with jumper cables and pushing the button/switch, and tried to stall the starter gear with a piece of 2x4. Sure enough the drive was slipping, and i was lucky to have found a drive at the local auto electric shop for $30 Canadian (so roughly $2 US lol). After i put the new drive in it shredded the 2x4, and spun that 235 much faster.

It goes without saying that some precautions must be taken while doing this as the 2x4 can kick back at you if you aren't careful, and gloves and safety glasses are a must!

Good luck, and don't be afraid to get in there and get dirty, once you see how the mechanism works during disassembly you will grin at its simplicity.