The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 Won't Start

Hello. I have a 1947 3100 that I bought almost a year ago. As far as I know it has it's original 216. I drove it for about 6 months before I started taking it apart. During that time it ran perfect. Always cranked right up and ran smooth. I took it down to the frame and then starting painting and putting it back together. Since the motor was running good the only thing I did was replace some gaskets. I didn't remove the distributor or the carburetor. I put the cab back on a few days ago. Got everything hooked back up and expected it to crank right up but I was wrong. It spins over but will not fire. Verified several times that the plug wires are connected correctly. Next thing I did was check the timing. It was a little off but I set it by the manual and also checked several old posts to make sure. Also had a couple of friends that are much better mechanics than me check and they think it is timed right. Pulled the plugs out one at a time and they all were firing. Checked the carb next. It seemed to be working fine but there was never any gas on the plugs when I pulled them out so I had it rebuilt just to be sure. Still no luck getting it to crank. I'm hoping it just something simple that we are missing. Wanted to ask for some suggestions before we start going into the motor. Thanks for your help!

47 chevySC - Sounds like you are getting spark, and assuming timing is correct, the next thing is fuel. Are you getting fuel up to the carburetor? Will the engine run if you spray starting fluid into the carburetor? If so, you may have a clogged fuel line, faulty fuel pump, or just bad gas. Good luck!

If your trying to start it on 1 year old Ethanol chances are it won’t ignite. Look down the throat of the carburetor and move the accelerator linkage to see if your accelerator pump is working. Should see a steady squirt of gas. Does sound like a fuel issue.🛠

Yes I can see it spray gas in when I move the linkage. This is fresh gas as I drained the tank when I took it off. Also tried just a little starting fluid. Still won't hit.

I would remove the plugs and pour a bit (maybe 1/2 teaspoon or so) of gas into each cylinder replace plugs and wires and then turn it over. If your timing is correct and you're getting a healthy spark, something will happen. What make of carburetor? Who rebuilt it? Did they clean it very well? Especially the air/fuel passages. Offhand it sounds like you're not getting fuel into the cylinders, but there could be a more sinister problem here.

If you're getting spark at the right time and you're getting fuel into the cylinders the other question is: Are you getting compression? That of course is essential. Without that you won't get the fuel to ignite and you won't have enough vacuum to draw fuel into the cylinders correctly. I've seen it happen where engines sit unused that the valves stick (basically rust to the guides) in areas which suffer high humidity. Normally this only affects a couple to a few cylinders, but that isn't a promise. When you try to start one of these with a sincerely stuck valve, you'll bend the pushrod and then the engine will turn merrily but that cylinder will be disabled. Sort of a long shot in my opinion but I have to ask. Pull two plugs (maybe 6 plug and 3 plug), stick fingers in the plug holes and have your wife, buddy, somebody turn the engine over. You should feel air being compressed. If you don't, remove the valve cover and watch as the engine is being turned over. If you don't see all rocker arms & valves moving, you've found the problem. Once I saw a man put an engine back together and leave the pushrods sitting in a bucket of gasoline (where he had been cleaning them). Odd mistake but he was young and I guess excited to get it all finished. Good luck.

Hello. Just got a chance to spend some time on the truck over the last few days. Please go back and look at my original post. Since then I have checked the compression which is good. I replaced the plugs, points and condenser. It spends over but never hits. With everything I have tried at this point I do not know what else to do. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

This may sound stupid (very stupid), but I bring it up for a reason because it never happened to me.

1. Ensure key is in the on position (turned to the right)
2. Ensure you use your choke when you start it so the gas gets pulled into the cylinder

I wouldn’t recommend starting fluid. Just squirt some gas down the carb. Do you get a pop at all?

Chris

Did you by chance forget to put the distributor rotor back on?

Choke closing fully? My truck will not start cold unless the choke is fully closed. Once, I had the air cleaner screw poking down into the carb throat a bit too much. This stopped the choke from closing all the way and the truck wouldn't start.

Is the vacuum line to wiper motor connected? Or plugged to stop vacuum leak?

The key is in the run position and power to the coil. I also replaced the coil but forgot to mention that. Also pulled the valve cover off and everything was moving as it should. You can look down in the carb and see the gas go down into the manifold when you activate the accelerator. Choke is fully closed when trying to start it. Rotary button is installed. any other ideas please?

Distributor is 180* out. Get #1 to TDC on compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointing.🛠

Checked the timing again today. With #1 on TDC rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire on the cap.

If you have spark at the plug level, and fuel at the carb squirting, You have one of 2 issues. Timing is off or fuel isn’t getting into the cylinders (blockage)

Ok, really stupid question, have you removed the carb since the last time it ran? If so, Did you ensure there isn’t a towel blocking the fuel (I did that one too!)? I placed a paper towel in throat of intake manifold to ensure nothing fell in.

Chris

Ok, just because you didn’t say, “with #1 on TDC”, is it at TDC on the compression stroke? The piston can be on TDC twice in the rotation of the crankshaft. Just want to make sure you got it right.🛠

You beat me to it with that question, Martin.

47chevySC - do you know how to determine if #1 cylinder is on the compression/firing stroke?
The timing mark come around twice for each firing stroke.

Check for spark at the spark plugs
Even with a distributor installed 180 degrees off (or any degrees off for that matter) a cylinder will fire somewhat, likely backfiring through the carburetor or the exhaust.

Carl,

It was previously mentioned that he had a spark at the plugs. It has to be either a fuel or timing issue.

Chris

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't see how I could be 180 out as the distributor was never removed. I just took the cap off when I painted the engine and noted which wires went where and reinstalled them the same. The carb was never off until after a lot of spinning the motor over we removed it and had it rebuilt Don't think anything could have gotten down into the intake as I just put an old towel over the intake while the carb was off. As I stated before the motor ran great until I removed it for cleaned. I'm sure I am missing something just can't figure out what. I'm out of things to try so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Does the engine sound, "normal" when cranking? Or does it sound fast and smooth? If its the latter of the two, maybe the cam gear lost some teeth and is not now turning. Pull the valve cover off and verify that the valves are working, opening and closing. If not, you have some work todo. Let us know.

Find TDC and recheck the plug wires are in the correct order starting at where the dizzy points as plug one. (1-5-3-6-2-4)

If it won’t start, you can put plug wire six in place of one and continue through the order.
(6-2-4-1-5-3) to make it 180 off.

Obviously, something was missed and incorrect so we need to go back and recheck everything with a systematic approach. Since the last time it was started, you removed rotar cap, plug wires, and rebuilt the carb. Correct?

Spark- checkEd at the plug
Fuel squirting- checked are the carb
Timing- is spark happening at the correct time to ignite fuel? NO.

I know this is frustrating, but recheck everything as if you didn’t check it yet.

Chris

Put 2-3 tablespoons of fresh gas down the throat of the carburetor and try to start. If it doesn't start, check the plugs again to make sure they are still firing strong.

It is alive once again!!!!! Thanks to everyone that made suggestions. I did as Chris suggested and rearranged the plug wires to make it 180 off and it cranked right up. Hopefully someone can explain to me in a way my small brain can understand how it got that way when I never removed the distributor and if I remember correctly the flywheel would only go on one way. My issue now is that the timing marks are off so I guess I will have to pull the distributor and rotate it 180 to get everything lined back up. This is really a learning experience for me as I have not worked on anything like this since I used to help my dad work on his old farmall tractors and that was a long time ago. Thanks again for your help as I was out of things to try and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future.

Sunday August 16th 6:07pm I posted you were 180* out, again at 8:45pm and Chris gets credit? Tclederman again suggested you were 180* out Sunday at 10pm and Chris gets credit? Yes, I see the “Thanks everyone”. Not that we’re keeping track!🤣 Glad you finally listened to the voices of reason and got it going. Now get out and drive the heck out of it.🛠

Hi Martin. From what I have seen there are a lot of very good mechanics on this forum but unfortunately I am not one of them. Where you stated you are 180 off, Chris said you are 180 off and here is how you can fix it. That's what I needed to see. That's the only reason I called Chris out by name. As I stated I really do appreciate everyone that responded as most of this is all new to me. Thanks again.

👍🏻

So you are saying that with the number one piston at top dead center on the compression stroke, and the rotor pointing at the # 1 plug wire post on the distributor, the needle is not on the ball on the flywheel? I don't understand how it can run if that is the case.
Pulling the distributor and dropping it back in 180 degrees will do nothing but cause you to have to move your spark plugs around again to make it run.

I've been explaining how this situation can happen, and how to fix it, for close to 20 years on this site, and nobody seems to be willing to listen. Now I just sit back and watch the show.

Carl. Yes that is correct. I searched through old posts trying to find where someone else had this problem and a solution but I have not found it yet.

Glad to hear that it started up! Obviously, I don’t deserve credit. The others figured it out. Using a timing light with adjustable setting, how many degrees are you off?

Chris

Well the timing light is not an option at this point as my marks on the flywheel are 180 off after I moved the plug wires and got it to crank. I thought I could remove the distributor and rotate it 180 and then move my wires back to there original locations that would fix the problem but someone said no it would not. Not being much of a mechanic I still don't understand what I did to cause this or how to fix it. Someone said they had posted a fix for this before so I have spent a few hours searching through old posts but have not found it yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

To get it back where it belongs with your limited mechanical skills do the following. Remove #1 spark plug. Remove coil wire. Have a helper bump the starter around as you hold your thumb against the spark plug hole. You will feel compression building then it will push your thumb off the hole. Do this a couple of times so you get used to the feel. Then as your thumb gets pushed away the helper should stop bumping the starter. Your timing mark should be visible in the timing hole. Using mechanical leverage move the mark to the pointer. Now pull the distributor up enough to rotate the shaft easily. Point the rotor to the proper #1 tower on the cap and reinsert the distributor. It will rotate slightly as it goes down so you may have to try a couple of times to get it right on. If the distributor will not seat fully you will have to pull it all the way out and use a flat blade screwdriver to move the oil pump shaft a little to let the distributor drop. OR, since it runs as it’s wired now just leave it alone and set the timing by ear or a vacuum gauge. Hope this helps.🛠

Stupid idea, why not put your timing light on the #6 spark plug wire instead of the #1 plug?!?? You should be able to still time it like that. Timing will be the same for every cylinder as long as you can see the ball.

Thoughts? Am I wrong?

Chris

The OP needs to find the timing mark in the hole of the front of the bell housing where the needle is. One cannot put the flywheel on the crankshaft in the wrong position. It only goes on one way.
My wild guess is that the timing mark (BB) is covered with grime, making it unreadable when the #1 piston is at top dead center.
Until this timing mark location issue is cleared up, no one will be able to "solve" the OP's mystery.

OK. Here's what happened. When I rotated the engine over at the first of the week until I felt the pressure on the number one cylinder I had rotated the rotor button 180 degrees. Per suggestions I then moved the plug wires on the cap and then the truck cranked right up. At the time I was thinking since I rotated the rotor 180 that I moved the flywheel 180 which would put the timing marks over on the drivers side of the truck. I was thinking about this at work today and remembered that the flywheel would have actually turned 360 which would put the timing marks right back where they should be. You know when you are walking along and trip over your own feet and you look around hoping no one was looking.....well I was hoping not too many people read my post as I see now it didn't make any sense, I just had to move the motor a little and the timing marks showed. It was close. Got the timing light out and fine tuned it. Hopefully I am not as dumb as this post probably made me look. I have three other older vehicles that I have kept up for years. Just have not had to do anything like this in a very long time. I still have a long way to go but now I can start putting the body back together. Thanks again for every ones help. It's great having access to you guys that know so much about these old trucks.

We all have brain farts and make mistakes. It’s all good! Drive the wheels off your truck!

Chris

You are not dumb.
You stayed with it, and, you solved your problem.
You learned from your mistake(s).

If anyone here ever says they have never made a mistake, they are a fool and a liar.

47chevySC. I don't kown if you knew but if you click on the name of your town in the upper right corner some very intersting pictures of you town comes up. I love some of the old buildings. This all the help I can be and I did not know about this feature for years.