The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Worn lock cylinder in ignition

I am about to install my fourth lock cylinder in the ignition. It seems these after market cylinders don't last very long for me--only one driving season. Am I the only one with this problem? I complained to my supplier when I bought my third cylinder and her gave me a fourth one to replace the third one when it wears out. The third one has worn out, i.e.I turn the key to shut off the engine and nothing happens--the engine continues to run. I had to shut it off by shifting into first gear, standing on the brake, and releasing the clutch to stall the engine. Any suggestions for a new supplier who can offer a robust cylinder?

Replace the whole switch assembly- - - -not just the lock cylinder. What year truck are you running? Those switches turn up "new oldf stock" on Ebay occasionally.
Jerry

I used this switch on mine. It was an exact copy of the switch I had installed some 30 years earlier except this one was rated for 30 amps and the older one was rated for 15 amps. You can use this or one just like it (available at places other than Amazon) to replace the original switch...but please note: this is a 4 position switch...acc/off/on/start If you're using a foot start, you will just need to wire for acc/on/off.

The lock cylinder is the "knob" for the switch. If it turns to "ON" position and back to "off" position, with the key, that's all it is supposed to do. It operates an actual electrical switch. The ignition switch. The switch allows power to be supplied to the coil and other components. When it cuts power to the coil, the motor stops. So you have been replacing the wrong component and/or you have other electrical wiring/ignition problems.

We ALWAYS need the Truck year, make, model. The motor year, make, model. On EVERY new post.

Just put that info in your signature. Then it's always there.

The after market switches & tumblers are junk. I put new ones in my 56 when I still had it. You could turn the switch on with anything. Screwdriver, coin, etc. You could pull the key out in any position. I took them back to the supplier & they got out every one in stock. They all were the same way.

Maybe that is true for some vendors. But it's not the issue he has, as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the replies. I've corrected my signature block so folks know some basic info about my truck. Looks like I need to clarify my problem . Wrenchbender Ret. seems to understand best. I am using the original switch assembly. The only thing I am having trouble with, it seems to me, is the cylinder that fits into the switch assembly. When I replace the lock cylinder with a new one, the problem goes away for about one year or driving season. When I did the frame-off rebuild, I rewired the entire vehicle with an American Autowire package and it works beautifully. So, I think my problem lies in finding a new source for a replacement cylinder or finding information about anyone's success using a locksmith to repair the "worn out" cylinder.

My lock cylinder supplier said the best way to make sure I get a good "new" cylinder and key is to make sure the key has very prominent teeth on it. "They seem to last longer", he said!

Well, if a new cylinder corrected the problem for a year or so, I'd simply purchase a better new ignition assembly and use it. It isn't a bit complicated. As you probably know there's a housing held in place with 2 screws. In most there is a small light (connected to the dash light circuit). Remove that housing, swap the new switch for the old and wire as needed. I wouldn't spend any time trying to repair the old switch. Like other things they do wear out and it sounds like the replacements are junk. Good luck.

So do you a have a foot start, push button on the dash or a solenoid start? Can you give us the name of the vendor where you got the cylinder and it's part number?
Who is this mysterious "lock cylinder supplier" ?????? Why would he advise YOU to make sure the teeth are prominent when HE is supplying the key? What does the key have to do with it? It only releases the mechanism that turns the cylinder which turns the rotary switch. You have not told us anything about the cylinder not operating or the key causing troubles. You have only said the motor won't turn off. I understand that you say when you get a new cylinder the problem goes away. This makes you believe it is the cylinder. I have explained how it works and I do not believe it is the cylinder.
I also can't explain why you never got a new switch.
I can't explain why it goes away when you get a new cylinder. I also can't explain why you are only getting one season on a cylinder. Neither makes any sense. Have not noticed anyone having such short service out of a cylinder. Also your lock cylinder guy is talking crazy talk about key teeth being the problem.
I will stick with my original post. It's the electrical switch part. NOT the cylinder. Unless you forgot to tell us something about the actual cylinder not turning. I tried to cover that in my last post by saying if goes to ON and back to OFF, that's all it is supposed to do.





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This is the new ignition assembly I was talking about. Sorry...I thought a link to it existed in my first post but there isn't one. This will give you a new ignition switch, 2 new keys and a new tumbler/cylinder.

https://www.toolboxsupply.com/produ...eral-purpose-ignition-switch-with-2-keys

In hopes of making this more understandable, please look below. This is an ignition switch...solely the switch part. This is what people here are saying you need. Your cylinder/tumbler fits inside that and your key when inserted lets the cylinder turn, activating the switch part. The switch part is what's bad in yours. If your new cylinder makes things work for a while, that's nice and all, but it is more of an interesting coincidence than anything else I'm afraid.

And please take a look at this image below. If you were around when I was preparing a tutorial about repairing your headlight switch, you may remember the switch I was using was intermittent...worked but not very well and not at all predictably. I think if you look at the contact plate, it is easy to see why it wasn't working. Could you do the same thing with your ignition switch? Probably so, but you won't know until you take it apart and see. Given that you can buy a brand new switch, keys, everything for less than $20, I'd say that might be the best answer. This headlight switch (as you can see in the second image) cleaned up very well...

Jon, I was trying to find out which switch he has. The original or the next generation you posted. It does seem like he may have a solenoid, which the "V8" switch you show is used for. He did say "original" switch. A 53 switch is the pic you first posted and the link I posted. It would be good to know but agree that either way it's the switch. I'm sure that Tom understands and will remedy.

The aftermarket tumblers are junk. Its the best that is available new, but the quality is just not like oem. The wafers and mechanism on an original tumbler can be repaired rebuilt. If you dont have a locksmith locally, use Jessers. He has been in business for years in the old car and truck hobby and a long time advertiser in Hemmings, and use to be at some of the larger AACA shows years ago although I think he has slowed down. So get a decent used original tumbler and here is the website for Jessers. Any chance you have the original tumbler? If you want to have the key set up so that one key fits all the locks, and your door key fits both doors, you might consider pulling one of the door locks and see if you can find a four digit code on the lock. If so, jessers can set your tumbler up to use all one key, doors and ignition.

http://jessersclassickeys.com/\

Next, get either a decent used original or nos or rnos switch, usa made and not new manufactured. There were quite a few good after market companies that sold replacement electrical parts and some of them were pretty good: Valley Forge, Shur-it, Eschlin, Wizzard, Filko, Western. You are looking for parts made in the usa better then 20 years ago I would think.

Thank you one and all. I will respond in more detail later. Evening guests are changing my plans.

I had an issue with a bad tumbler. I took the key out in the off position, but the ignition was still on overnight, cooking my coil and my Pertronix unit (not all bad since it convinced me to go back to points like Jesus did in the Bible, so to speak).
What I did to prevent this from happening again was to rewire the key illumination light to come on when the key is on and go off when the ignition is actually off. I just cut the wire going to the light and wired it to the "ignition on" lug on the switch..

During my University of Florida day's I worked for one of the oldest hardware stores in Florida. Pappy Rice was the owner as was his grandfathers prior. That old man taught me so much regarding locks and safes. GM was always the odd ball out with their wafer system, a good GM lock is only a little more difficult to open than other auto manufacturer's. I have not even looked closely at the new GM locks. Sorry folks but with our taxpayer dollars bailing them out I believe they should give every taxpayer one of their pieces of their modern junk. I know many will be offended but, hay that's what the First Amendment is for. Off my soap box now. Starting in 1954 GM trucks had a key way that allowed the operator to take the key out in the on position. The primary reason is what they believed to be a safety factor by having one door lock and it was on the passenger side. They correctly believed due to suburban growth that operators would get hit by on coming traffic trying to unlock and lock the drivers side door. I know most of us realize this. The GM wafer system tumblers were very well built brass, the new Chinese wafers are very soft brass that do not align with the lock of the outer casing. Therefore when the tumbler appears to be in the off position the wafers don't go into the slots and one has a constant hot connection. I believe I can get a few boxes of wafers and I will try. I have the knowledge to re-build the tumblers. See what I can do. About my rant and GM, I tell everyone I can about the selective good products GM produces, which overtime is few. I'm cranky today and just double posted, forgive me please. Doc.

Thanks for your additional comments. Here is some additional information. During the rebuild, I removed the foot starter pedal and installed a push button in the dash (just like the first car I ever owned). The first two lock cylinders I installed required some "jiggling" and and sometimes some lateral motion on the key to get the cylinder to actually rotate to the ON position and subsequently to the OFF position. When both of the cylinders finally failed outright, the ignition switch was in the OFF position. I could turn the key, the cylinder would rotate, but the switch would not supply power to the push button.

The opposite is true for the third switch which also required "jiggling" and lateral motions to rotate the cylinder. However, when it finally failed, the ignition switch was stuck in the ON position. I could turn the key, rotate the cylinder from ON to OFF and the engine would continue to run.

The supplier for the first three cylinders and the fourth "free" cylinder is "The Filling Station". This business is conveniently located about thirty minutes from my home. Their part number for the lock cylinder is 47-11582.

Yesterday, I removed the third lock cylinder and installed the "free" fourth cylinder. With some "jiggling" and lateral motion on the key, the cylinder rotates, the switch turns to the ON position and power is supplied to the push button. I'll admit I am bona fide member of the slow learner group--four cylinders and counting all while using the same switch.

Gawd I hate wallowing underneath the dashboard! The old body doesn't bend and flex as advertised. Someone a couple of years ago suggested laying a plank between the floor board and a sawhorse conveniently located near the open door. This little act extends the horizontal surface for a reclined body and it works great.

So here is my action plan. I have ordered a new key cylinder from the Classic Parts. When it arrives, I will replace the "free" fourth cylinder with the Fifth cylinder and monitor its performance. If the fifth cylinder fails, I will replace the switch assembly!! Then, to prove or disprove other notions, I will try using lock cylinders three and four. I will post the results of my findings for everyone to see. Meanwhile, I would happily entertain any other suggestions or comments. Thanks again one and all....

Leave the "key cylinder" out of the ignition switch and turn the switch on and of with a screw driver to test the switch with the "key cylinder" completely out of the picture.

Exactly what a friend recommended! I'll try it in the morning and report back.

1. It sounds like you have an electric solenoid starter. Sounds like you are using a push button switch and an original ON/OFF switch.
2. You have it wired wrong. The ignition switch does not supply power to the push button. You need wiring advice so that your motor shuts off.
3. You are obsessed with lock cylinders and you are wasting a lot of time and money on a silly idea that you are getting 5 bad cylinders.
4. Get THIS switch, same as Jon_G pix, and use one of your lock cylinders in it and Mount this switch in the dash hole and also get rid of the push button. This switch has a far right momentary position for start.
5. I will advise how to wire once you settle down with lock cylinders. You have never actually explained what is broken about the lock cylinders. What is actually wrong with them mechanically other than "worn out".
6. Here in the Southwest we would make a concho belt from all those cylinders.

You might appreciate the symbolism in this, bartamos. I ordered a new lock cylinder from Classic Parts of America. It arrived on Thursday, inserted into a new switch--all for the price of a lock cylinder! Perhaps you and the universe are trying to tell me something..

I don't believe that I have wired anything incorrectly. Not because I am an electrician, but because I am really, really good at following written instructions and wiring diagrams. The instructions and diagrams supplied by American Autowire are thorough and easy to follow. However, the ignition switch they supplied did not fit into my dashboard without major alterations which I did not want to do. So, I documented by hand all of my wiring terminations on the original switch. For your review,I would be happy to share this diagram with you once I figure out how to get a hard copy into electronic form and post it here.

The new switch is 3 pole just like the original. Aesthetically, I am trying to keep the appearance of the dashboard as close to era as the original. That's why I installed the push button. Let me know if seeing my handwritten diagram of the ignition switch interests you.

I sincerely appreciate your efforts to help me on this problem.

Sure, would love to see wiring diagrams, instructions, etc. There are different "ideas" used throughout auto electrical design. Best practices economically and electrically changed a little. I was giving you the "settled" wiring for pre-computer, points style wiring most often used. Getting power to headlight switch and ignition switch, with ammeters can be accomplished several ways. As long as you get the power to the switch, it's OK. The newer harnesses use a prewired fuse panel and the harness is a universal kit. So the wiring scheme is not like the original that had little or no fuses and unnecessary terminal blocks.

Please indicate if you have an ammeter and give AAW harness part number. That is the best harness available. Good choice.

It is odd that you want originality but have installed a push button start switch. That's why I thought it was best to go ahead and eliminate that push button while also allowing you to eliminate the foot start and use the all-in-one switch we recommended. It would look pretty close to original in the dash hole I would think.
I support your decisions, it's your truck. I can only suggest options to consider and points to ponder. Always good to have other thoughts, albeit not inline with a persons restore vision.

Here is more information. I talked with the owner of The Filling Station and he thought I should be using a relay switch. My previous post shows my manual drawing of how I wired the original switch. After thinking about his comment, I realized that I was sending a heavy load from a 12 volt system through a 6 volt switch. If that is true, then bartamos you were right. My problem is indeed a wiring problem. My plan is to move all these wires on the ignition switch to terminal blocks and connect the ignition switch to the terminal blocks through a relay. Does this make sense to you? I used AAW Highway 15 kit, their catalog P/N 500703. I also used an additional fuse block for trailer power, electric brakes, heater A/C, heated seats and some power receptacles for charging electronic devices. I do have an antiquated Radio Shack version of an ammeter.

Hi Tom. the ignition switch does not need a relay. You don't need to add terminal blocks. Your switch will operate on 12V. 12V has half the amp load of 6V. The switch will be OK. Adding a relay is not part of a 12V conversoin per me or our tech ti section. I do, however need to know what switch you finally used.


So here are my questions, assumptions and things I will study, if necessary, after you post a response.

1. Your wiring info above is very hard to decipher right now. I don't have any idea what colors are for what until I look at the AAW info, if I can find it.
2. Since this post is fairly old, can you please advise as to what ignition switch you are now using? A picture of it? A part number? Where you got it? anything at all so I can know what it is.
3. Please advise if you now have any problems with any electrical on the truck or is everything now OK?
4. You have never actually said that you have installed a NON FOOT START starter and that you now have an electric solenoid starter. You only said "During the rebuild, I removed the foot starter pedal and installed a push button in the dash (just like the first car I ever owned)." Even though I know you must have the electric, please confirm.
5. Do you have an alternator or a generator/voltage regulator charging system?
6. Please confirm if you have a 6V or a 12V system.

I am now looking at the AAW instructions.
There are TWO different Highway15 kits. One is the universal kit and one is the nostalgia kit. you gave the part number for the universal kit. The online instructions diagram on that one says "Do Not Use For Installation". The Nostalgia diagram does not say that. The two diagrams have DIFFERENT colors. SOooooo I need you to post or send me good clear pics of the diagram you are using.

Hi bartamos. Thank you for the effort you are putting into my problem. I am trying to post photos but struggling with the process. I'll answer your questions in the order written.

2. Meanwhile. without a photo, the switch part number from Chevs of the 40's is 1116452T and from The Filling Station is TR 345.
3. Everything electrically on the truck operates fine, though currently I do have all the wires to the switch disconnected and the push button starter is disconnected. Before I disassembled the wiring, I had installed the fourth lock cylinder and all worked fine. I am trying to resolve this issue of replacing lock cylinders.
4. I do have the electric starter. I will try to post a photo of the push button in my dash (once I figure it out!).
5. I have an alternator.
6. I have a 12 volt system.

I used the universal kit which is shown in the link you posted. I had to add an additional fuse block to accommodate all the onboard equipment. On this fuse block I have the following: Trailer auxiliary power; tool box auxiliary power; electric trailer brake: electric pusher fan for the radiator: heated driver seat: heated passenger seat: and a charging port for electronic devices.

Tom, thank you for the good clear answers. Glad to help.
I don't need any pictures except the wiring diagram you used from AAW. This is how you post a photo from a camera. I do not know how to post from a phone photo.
Take a pic, download to your computer. Go to the stovebolt post. Click on "Use Full Editor" at bottom right of post. Then click on "Attachment Manager" in lower left. This will ask for your picture link. Click on "Select a File To Attach". This will take you to your computer's picture files. Clink on the photo, then click open. The photo will appear in the post manager window. Click "done" and it will attach to the post. You may not see it until you click "Post Reply" at bottom of post.
It is very hard to take pics of a diagram so in lieu of that, you can confirm that THIS is the diagram that you are using EVEN THOUGH it says Do Not Use For Installation. Please look carefully at the diagram colors. There are TWO diagrams with different colors for Highway 15.

Neither of which matches your wiring list/sketch

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS: we don't need to discuss all this anymore because you have NO PROBLEM TO SOLVE and you have proven that your wiring is good according to what you have recently said. Your lock cylinder problem will go away now that you finally have a new switch. It's a simple on and off switch. I don't know why you gave me two part numbers for the switch. I just wanted to know which one you actually purchased.

I am confirming that the diagram in the link for American Autowire is correct. That is the one I used.

In addition to the very original switch that came with the truck in 1953, I have purchased two more. One each from Chevs of the 40's and one each from The Filling Station. These two purchased switches were an attempt to solve the problem of failed lock cylinders. Three of the lock cylinders performed well for about one driving season. At the end of their life cycle, when turning the key to the right, the key no longer activates the switch. When the third lock cylinder failed, I installed the fourth lock cylinder in switch number three. The fourth lock cylinder is now activating switch number three just fine.

Soooo, I am back to my original problem. Why, after a period of usage, do my lock cylinders fail to activate the ignition switch? As a precaution, I have kept a spare lock cylinder on hand in case the installed cylinder fails while I am away from home and shop. This strategy has served me well in two different instances. However, it is not a long term solution.

Since Classic Parts of America was kind enough to include a new switch along with a new lock cylinder, I will install the new switch (switch #4) and see if the last failed lock cylinder (cylinder #3) will function in the new switch. I will post the results of my efforts hopefully by mid-week.

Thanks again, bartamos. Any follow-up comments--either by you or anyone else--would be greatly appreciated.