The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk VIN Help 1952 3100

First off, I'm new to the forum & to 3100 trucks so forgive me for asking a question that may have been covered many times...
I'm purchasing a 1952 3100. The tag on the driver door pillar is stamped KBM ###### which appears to be an engine serial #. Did they use engine #'s in 1952 for the number on the door tag?

Looking at sites to decode a VIN this tag doesn't match the format but does match an engine number format. BTW, this truck has a replacement 235 c.i.

Thanks!

In a word no. Is your body tag held on with the correct rivets?
Here is the correct format for the body tag on a 52

More than likely your truck was originally titled back in 1952 using the engine serial number KBMxxxxx. The engine died and was swapped out, so someone had a new tag made with the original engine number and stuck it on the truck so it matched the title.

Once either the engine or chassis serial numbers were used for the title, the other number became legally useless...there was never a record of which chassis got which engine.

Chevrolet stopped stamping engines with serial numbers after 1956, so from then on the chassis number had to be used for titling purposes...it wasn't an option.

Mike B

One more question ... Since the door pillar tag (is apparently an engine code from the original engine not the current engine) and matches the current title is the truck legal? Should this be a show stopper for purchasing?

AND thanks for responding ... also the door pillar tag is riveted but not sure if its the original rivets.

That depends on your state, and/or your DMV office, and/or your DMV agent.

I had to obtain a bonded title on my 1954 Suburban (that had been registered in NY state for at least 15 years).

Luckily, the NC DMV agent trusted me and allowed a bonded value based on original list price (or, maybe even the depreciated original list price). He trusted me because I had a lot of documentation and the truck had been registered to me in New York State.

I hope that same agent is around when I have to register the 1954 pickup (that is still looking for a finish-coat painter).

Well that is the $64000 question. The body tag has been doctored in the past, which is illegal in all states unless the state did it which sounds very doubtful. Does your tag look like this one that has the engine number on it?

https://www.classicparts.com/1951-52-Door-Post-ID-Plate-Chevrolet/productinfo/33-013/

If so I personally would pass on the truck especially if it was going to be retitled in another state, same state , I would be thinking long and hard about it. Just my .02

Bottom line Engine numbers never in any case were stamped on any body tag, ever. Dont you think any state inspector worth their salt would know that? I do. The internet is full of war stories like this. In my opinion risky purchase.

Every state has a way to solve this issue. Call your licensing authority and talk to them about if/how the problem can be resolved in your case. They are the people you'll have to deal with. Unless one of our users works for your state's licensing office, and gives you advise in this thread, anything we say will be opinion.

Please explain why would it be illegal to remove the pillar tag on a pre-1955 vehicle that was titled via the engine number?

Almost every pre-1955 street rod (car or truck) is in the same boat...original engine is long gone...

Mike B

Plain and simple explanation. It’s a “Factory “ applied tag/number and the laws are written to prevent altering, removing, relocating; etc of factory markings. It has nothing to do with what’s on the title.

This thread is getting close to violating site rules if folks start talking about actually doing it.

This topic comes up very often - maybe a "stickie" would be useful - we can then link to the stickie rather than going through the facts/nuances of dealing with registering a poorly ID'd/marked/tagged/registered truck?

All sorts of situations/solutions are possible.

The only totally legal and guaranteed-successful situation is:

- an original body tag with original unmoved attachments (not common) and an original engine (not common) and a correctly transferred title and/or sales document (not common).
Or
- a bonded title, if available from the DMV in the poster's state/location.

Probably not illegal Mike to remove it but definitely illegal to replace it with an non authentic one, like the op truck has..

Tiny is right, everything we say is conjecture. Thing is anyone can battle through anything, but do you have to and need too. Like I said plenty of people have had good luck and as many hasn't. There was a person in my state a few years back that lost his law enforcement position because he placed an incorrect body tag on a 65 mustang making it a hertz rental car shelby. Granted it is an extreme case but you dont know maybe one day in the past the op's future truck was stolen from a guy like us on this forum. It is always best to play the game straight. We are a country of laws and it seems to of slipped out of this mindset these last few weeks.

I seem to have a different experience than what several others are claiming is correct. I have a 1952 3100 that was manufactured in Oakland California. It has never been out of California. It has the original door pillar tag with the engine number as ID. It matched the engine in the truck and the title (aka pink slip in CA ) when I purchased the truck. I purchased the truck from the second owner and she purchased it from her neighbor. The tag had never been changed.

I'm not condoning anything illegal and not trying to have the post locked down, but would really like to know why the door post tag is any different than an axle or transmission serial number.

If a vehicle is sold in 1952 with a title that used the engine serial number, then the transmission, rear and door post numbers just became irrelevant...there's no way to ever connect the dots between any of these numbers because NO one, not even GM recorded that info into a data base. GM just left it to the individual States to pick which number they would use for titling. Now, if the original engine is replaced, you've just defaced the only way to identify the vehicle as being yours, as none of the other numbers are on record anywhere.

Am I way off base with this thinking?

Mike B

How did you know your truck was produced in Oakland if the door tag had the engine number on it? Are you saying it had the correct door tag with the correct body number plus the engine number?

My 53 is an oakland built truck and it has the original body tag with the correct body number. Never seen a body tag with an engine number on it. Would you be willing to post a picture? Would like to see if it had the correct mounts and stamping?

Your reasoning is sound Mike, this is exactly why I kept my original engine for my truck.
The issue at hand is it is illegal to tamper with body tag numbers, so removing a legitimate body tag that has no relevance to the title number which was based on the engine number in many states back then, and replacing a facsimile body tag with an engine number to make it seem correct is illegal.

Bingo. If the engine number was the ID number for a vehicle, the number it was "born" with, changing it without the permission of the licensing authority is fraud. Having said that, the Data Plate on my '38 was is such bad condition that I replaced it with a repop BUT i re-stamped the OEM numbers on the new plate AND keep the original plate in the glove box in case a problem ever arises. There are lawyers making a VERY good living off of people changing titles, numbers and data plates on vehicles then selling them as something they are not. Personally I don't care to make their next Porsche payment for them.

Just a post to confirm another number on a tag. I bought a ‘53 that had been caught in a brush fire. The tag was burned like the rest of the truck but the tag, with rivets, clearly has another number. This number correlated to a rebuilt engine tag (the block was not stamped on the pad by the distributor). The rebuilder was a company called Mustang I believe but I could not find a picture of that tag. No information came with the truck other than they had purchased it locally many years prior to the fire.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8130562112/in/album-72157631870734114/

Tiny.

Do you want to know what my NC DMV registration inspector said to me regarding your statement in quotations, below?

". . the Data Plate on my '38 was is such bad condition that I replaced it with a repop BUT i re-stamped the OEM numbers on the new plate AND keep the original plate in the glove box in case a problem ever arises."

Regarding my 1954 Suburban that had been registered/driven for over 15 years in NY (and was first purchased and register by me in 1972 in Virginia)

"That is a real nice original ID plate that you have in your glove box - how do I know it came from off of this truck?"

It was his choice to allow me to obtain a bonded title.
A bonded title is not always allowed.

He said he trusted me, but, if he was wrong and the NC DMV ever determined that the truck was stolen, he would get fired.

Ok, we have now actually moved into the forbidden area. Removing, restamping, renumbering, relocating, replacing and altering engine/body/chassis numbers without the approval of the State vehicle licensing authority is ILLEGAL. Plain, simple, no ifs ands or butts. Stovebolt.com does not condone or encourage such action. By direction of the site owners this discussion can progress no further.