The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Scored a free 350 crate engine

Hard to believe. This friend of mine got a supposedly running 350 crate motor in exchange for some welding work. He says it runs but the #8 cylinder fouls the spark plug. The guy that gave it to him is no mechanic and amazingly preferred to buy another brand new crate motor rather than figure out why his engine was fouling one spark plug.

He approached me because he knew I was looking for a replacement engine for my 52 GMC and was considering a transplant because I didn't want to replace a weak 235 with another weak 235. He said it's mine for $100 bucks, or free if I give him a K&N air filter I've got and my old Holley spreadbore carb.

Sold.

So I'll get it in the next day or two, put it on the engine stand and clean it up good. Then I'll pull the heads, send them off for a valve job and new valve guides, flip it over and inspect the mains and caps. If they plastigauge okay, but a little loose, (which I expect from a used motor), maybe I'll just throw in some new bearings.

If the hone is good with no scoring, I think I'll leave the pistons in. My mechanically minded friends want me to re-ring it too, but I know myself, and I'll end up wanting to overbore it and buy forged pistons and supercharge the motor.
KISS still works. I keep telling myself "keep it simple, stupid". This motor is a runner and merely needs freshening up...if even that.

What I would LIKE to do is run a compression test to see what I've got. Not possible on an engine stand though.

I'm looking for torque, not a horsepower king. But I do wish I knew what cam was in it. If it's an unmolested 290 horse GM crate engine, then it's a 4-bolt block, powdered metal rods, cast pistons, and a 222/222 degree @ 0.05 cam, which will do the job.

I know I'm taking a chance on the rings, but a good ring job can last well over 200,000 miles with proper maintenance. If I can talk to the previous owner, I can find out how it ran before he pulled it.

I don't know, maybe I should re-ring it. I just didn't want to rebuild an engine...just throw in new bearings and freshen it up a little.

Every engine I have ever pulled(that I bothered to tear down, many just go back for core)that was oil fouling a plug had a broken ring in that cylinder. Usually no syptoms except the fouling. Not sure if detonation or what caused the breakage. You may also find that a ring/bearing/gasket kit is cheaper than gaskets+bearings separately. Brian

Hotrod Dad
You could do a leakdown test while the heads are still on it.That should give you some data on condition.A dial indicator set up on a lifter will give you cam data.

I agree with 64fltsde, I'd go ahead and re-ring the engine, you already have it that far apart, but I know how it is, easier to give advice than to take it!

You could do a compression test with a big drill, like a hole hog, one cylinder at a time.
A socket on the crank nut and an adapter in the drill should work. I have started a few of my old two cylinders with a drill, so you chould be able to check compression. I would not try it with all 8 plugs in at a time though.

i agree with doing a compression test first. the drill with socket is great idea! buying a motor and taking someones word that it is fine is really risky! good luck

if the pans off and the heads are off i wouldnt think of not replacing the rings your right there why even put the motor in the truck with a weak cylinder look ay the cam lobes to

I agree with all of you. I don't want to risk a motor I don't know the history on. I spoke to my machinist and if there is nothing to catch my finger nail on in the bores, then there only needs to be a fresh hone and a set of rings. I'll also change all the bearings.

The cam will probably be changed just because I'm so picky with my cam choices. So far, I've looked at Crane, GM and Iskendarian cams on Dyno2000. I don't really look at the ultimate numbers that Dyno claims, but I DO look at how the cams compare with each other. The Crane cams were the best for area under the curve, max and average torque. GM cams were a close second, and Isky was after that, which surprised me. The Isky cam in my IROC is extremely strong, I expected better.

I'm looking for something around 2000 to 5500 rpm. The heavy towing cams are typically idle to 4500 rpm, give or take. But being that I have ridiculous 4.56 gears in my truck with a super-granny 7.06:1 first, I don't think I really need an RV cam. I am looking for a good low-midrange torque cam that will do decently on the highway, with a cruise rpm in the 3500 range.
I already know that my truck requires 3800 rpm to go 70. Running 75 at 4000+ rpm will not give me very good gas mileage. So a change in rear gearing is in its future.
I think a 3.73 will drop rpm down pretty good so that I still have good towing ratios and won't tear the engine up going down the highway either.

I will keep the bathtub heads in the truck and just get a valve job on them. I might throw in a pair of steel shim head gaskets for 9:1 compression.

...And of course, the motor will be painted just like the truck, fire engine red, with polished and finned valve covers and oil pan. Should look pretty good.

Did you ask the original owner the mileage? Why would he fib at this point. I mean, it's a done deal. Just curious. Outstanding score Hot Rod.

I asked my friend for the original owner's contact information and he doesn't know it for some reason. That's why I figure I'd better freshen up the engine, since it's an unknown.

put on a one piece pan gasket too.. stops the leaks, just like a new engine.

I've had terrible luck with those 1-pc pan gaskets. They're only good for an initial build-up. If the silicon gasket gets any oil on it at all, it'll never stay on the pan and will slip out. I've had horrible oil leaks using those and ended up going back to the traditional oil pan gaskets.

Speedway has 3 different mounting options for this motor. The mount I want to use bolts and welds to the frame rails and would allow removal of the oil pan if necessary. I've found that to be handy from time to time in my Corvette, where the crossmember is in front of the motor.

I think I've found the cam I want to use too. It's a Crane cam with a 218/218 @ 0.050 duration that makes fantastic midrange torque. I chose this cam because of the steep 4.56 gears in this truck, with highway cruising in mind. It'll still be buzzy at a 4000 rpm cruise until I get the 3.70 geared Dana 60 in it, but it'll help.
To allow better low end towing torque, I plan on using Rhoads lifters, which add 10 to 15 degrees duration to the low end, extending the torque band. With 9:1 compression, this cam should produce about 370 lb-ft at 4000 rpm (right at my cruising speed) and 330 hp at 5000, with valve float at around 5600. The cam part number, in case anyone's interested, is #10017.

I'll adapt a pair of Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, even if I have to re-weld a primary tube or two for clearance. Then I'll have a 2.5 inch mandrel exhaust with an X-pipe crossover, dual super-turbo mufflers and slash cut tips exiting in front of the rear tires.

I'm going to use the M420 transmission, but I'll probably freshen it up.

It's definitely a builder. I'm a little dismayed that it's a 2-bolt block, but it'll work. If it was a runner, about the most I can hope for is that the bores are still good. It might have been a runner, but it's such a ball of grease that it looks like it's well worn.

I'll do a stock rebuild on the thing and save the good stuff for the 400 small block I've got that I want to put in it later.

I've got my work cut out for me, this thing is filthy and I've got to run the numbers on the block and see what it originally came in.

HotRodDad,
Just my .02..... If you don't have a good source for running the block/heads casting #'s, might try www.mortec.com They have alot of good info. As for the 400, I am building up a 406 for my 69 Camaro right now. I went through 4 blocks before one tanked out "good". Cracks in the lifter valley is a very common problem due to the siamesed bores making too much heat. If you are planning on running the 350 crate engine, I would definately rering the sucker at a minimum! You don't want to have to redo this mill any time soon once you get it in the truck. Good luck with it! Keep us posted.
Dano

Thanks for the link, that will be useful.

Now for some bad news. Talk about false advertising. Not only was this NOT a crate motor with a "few" miles on it, but it's not even a 350! It is a used 305 engine.

The guy didn't know any better I guess. It is a virgin block in good condition, and probably was a runner. It's in good shape. I just don't want a 305...not for a work truck. A Ford Model A, perhaps, or something that I needed good torque and decent fuel economy.

So the search still goes on. What fries my bacon is that he got a perfectly good K&N filter, Hayden fan, and Holley spreadbore carb. That is stuff I could have gotten good money for at a swap meet. I have to still consider it his unless I agree to give him the 305 back. I could use the 305 as a core if I need it for a crate motor.

At least it's nice and clean now. So if anyone in the New Mexico area wants a 305 that is an excellent rebuild candidate, it's yours for $100 bucks...or for a 4-bolt 350 builder in trade.

Id go get my stuff back...since it was a misunderstanding that is only fair...

I would build an High Output 305 and use Hasting piston rings.They will seal well @.019 tapered bore as long as your ring lands are clean and free.An HO 305 was a good runner.

Hotroddad

I think I agree with gtow69 why not freshen up the 305, you already have it and they were good work horse engines for years and it will be a little easier on gas than a 350 would be. Just my .02 cents worth.

Sean