The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Timing gears

I searched this forum but can't find anything at least by looking at post titles.

My 50' 3100 hadn't run for years before I recently bought it. I've been working on it and just installed a new distributer. I have the flywheel timing mark at the pointer on TDC. To me it looks like the timing gears are a tooth maybe two off. Looking thru the service manual it only talks about aligning the flywheel to the pointer or to check timing with a timing light, nothing about adjusting the cam a tooth or two. I do not see anything about removing the timing gear and slightly moving it. How do I adjust timing slightly.. Right now the slot where the bolt goes thru to hold down the octane marker is right against the bolt and really needs to go a little bit more according to a static time procedure..

Am I missing meaning?

How are you seeing the timing gears- - - - -do you have the front cover off the engine? If it's only a distributor timing issue, (not valve timing) do this: Loosen the bolt for the "octane selector" and center it in its slot, then lock it down again. Now, loosen the slotted screw under the distributor housing that allows the housing to turn, and set the timing that way. With the ball and pointer aligned, rotate the distributor housing counterclockwise until the points just barely open. Lock the screw down and be sure the points stay in the same position. The engine will be timed close enough to start. Then you can do a fine adjustment with the engine running, with a timing light and the octane selector, if necessary.
Jerry

Here is a photo of the octane selector/distributor hold down. So you can get a visual of where the screw to adjust the distributor is. One heads up, later Delco Remy replacement advance assemblies came with a bolt instead of the more familiar screw. This particular unit has the bolt.

Thanks guys.. I only assumed the timing gears were off... Didn't know there were adjustments inside the distributer.. Fortunately I kept my old vacuum advance before sending the old distributer back for core.. I made sure they were the same... Everyone I've met on hear have been so helpful..

If you have changed the distributor there's also the possibility you've got the distributor drive gear a tooth or two out of time with the camshaft. It's very important for the distributor rotor to point toward the spark plug wire for the cylinder you're tying to fire. There's a pretty specific procedure for making sure you're aligned with the right cylinder (the one on the compression stroke) when the ball and pointer are aligned. It's possible for either #1 or #6 cylinder to be on the compression stroke with those indicators in alignment.
Jerry

When I set the pointer and ball I had the valve cover off and rotated the crank Shaft until the small valve (intake) on the #1 cylinders opened up and closed.. I then continued to rotate the crank until the ball aligned with the pointer... I tried to set the distributer rotor to point towards the #1 plug but never could. I slightly lifted the distributer until I could move the rotor by one tooth both ways but would never point directly at the #1 plug.. That's why I thought the cam was a tooth off.

Be sure the distributor shaft is all the way down into the slot in the oil pump when the distributor drops into place. It's possible to get the gear engaged enough to make the engine run without any oil pressure. If the gear and the pump drive don't align properly you can use a long straight screwdriver to turn the pump shaft anywhere it needs to go- - - -the pump isn't timed to anything but the distributor shaft.
Jerry

Something is up here. You should have absolutely no problem getting the distributor set to tdc. Ideally, you want the no. 1 plug wire at about the 5 o’clock position. Take a look at the photo of the motor. Take note of the position of the various clips and studs. Set your distributor so the no. 1 wire is at the correct position on the cap. Then put a vertical chalk mark on the body of the distributor directly under the no, 1 tower.

Take the distributor out. Loosen the screw or bolt on the clamp. Use a flashlight and look into the block and see where the slot is on the oil pump. You need to get the distributor in so that the tang engages with the oil pump and sets the distributor in so the chalk mark is at about 5 o’clock. Does not have to be perfect. This might take a couple of tries and you may have to use a screwdriver to move the slot a bit to get the distrib7tor where you want it.

Make sure it’s fully seated. As HRL noted, it is possible to get the distributor in and the motor running without having the tang seated in the oil pump groove. You will know this immediately when you fire the motor but have no oil pressure. If this happens, shut the motor down and srptart over.

If it’s fully seated, install the hold down bolt, center the octane selector plate and tighten it down. Then, install a rotor and rotate the distributor until the rotor is pointing directly at your chalk mark. Tighten the screw on the clamp. Install the cap. Install plug wire no. 1. Check to see that all of the other wires are in the proper order on the cap. You are at near perfect tdc. Fire the motor, check the oil pressure, then time the motor with a timing light to perfect tdc or even a few degrees of advance, 3-8, see what the motor likes.

Is it normal for the vacuum advance to hold the distributer up about 1/2".. The vacuum advance sits on the block and the distributer sits above it. The shop manual shows this also.

The distributor clamp is first loosely screwed/bolted into/onto the block - the clamp should be a little open/loose.

Then you install the distributor (through the clamp and into the block) as described in the Shop Manual? (with the rotor pointing to the appropriate spark plug?)

The distributor is lowered into the block, and into the oil pump (as described in the manual).
When the distributor shaft is seated into the oil pump, tighten the clamp screw.

Make sure there is no o ring on distributor shaft

Make sure distributor engages oil pump slot

Isn't the groove that appears to need an O ring on the housing, not the shaft?
Jerry

I purchased a reman distributor from napa years ago

They added an oring to the shaft, and I could not get the distributor drop in

...pic...

Just something to look at if you get a rebuild distributor

I've always called the part that turns the "shaft"- - - -guess I've been wrong for 60 years!
LOL!
Jerry

Well I got the distributer in and set using the static timing method.. I really appreciate all the help. I can't believe I didn't think about loosening the clamp to turn the distributer.

I find myself saying, "I can't believe I didn't think about...yada yada yada." all to often, There are numerous 'interesting' aspects to these old trucks which keep me on my toes.
I had the same thing happen to me when i replaced my distributor. The clamp/vacuum advance arrangement is 'interesting' indeed.

I agree. My only experience with old vehicles was a 66 mustangs.. A far cry from from what I'm seeing now.

I time my 235 by vacuum. I put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold and advance the distributer for highest vacuum. Then I back it off a little bit. Take it for a test ride and listen for ping. If no ping I advance it a little at a time until there is ping , then I back off slightly. The 235 engines need more advance then TDC with todays fuels.

Thanks for the information Fiddle pin, never heard of setting timing by vacuum.

Timing by vacuum- - - - -"Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe!" That timing method went out of style approximately 75 years ago when strobe timing lights were invented.
Jerry

Sixty years ago, with variable, unpredictable octane from one gas station to the next, the go to method was seat of the pants. If the engine ran sluggish after a fill up, you would advance it until it ran better.
If it pinged under load, you would retard it until it quit pinging.
That was the sole purpose of the of the Octane Selector.

J.C. Whitney used to sell a "universal" (doesn't necessarily fit anything) cable-operated thumbwheel for the dashboard that allow spark adjustment while driving.
I used a Triumph choke lever mounted on my handlebars to control the spark on my WW2 H-D (the original was controlled through the left grip, but I didn't have those bars).

My 1942 Harley 45 flathead had the left handgrip timing control. Don't forget to retard the spark before trying to kick start one of those engines or it will launch you into the middle of next week! I bought that bike for $50.00, rode it for a year, and sold it for a C-note! I thought I really made some money there. I'd love to have it today!
Jerry