The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop frame clip vs. cross member swap

My 54 GMC 1/2 ton may be subject to a small block install. If i change the frame clip(i have a 77 firebird subframe), how much work is it going to be to allign the front body panals up again?
I re-call reading somewhere that a AMC Pacer crossmember is a better way to go because you keep the same frame and mounting points?
Anything else work?

All imfo appreciated, Thanks...

doing a clip looks like a huge job, let alone presise math and lineing up!

If you take your time and align things up it really is not that hard to perform if you have the tools.

The Pacer looks like the way to go but were in the Heck can you find a Pacer now?

I would nix the pacer option in favor of a IFS kit. The subframe is fine but any cost savings you might realize between it and kit would be eaten up by outside labor costs unless you do the work yourself. The kits will add value to your truck and are pretty slick although they do not include such things as steering connections or brake lines which will add additional cost.

Pacer is just so old tech and although you might be able to find parts now that is no gaurantee you will be able to down the road.

If you are investing time and money into the truck I would suggest the kit unless you are a handy guy with the necessary tools and gumption to do the subframe.

Yeah, I agree. I saved a lot of money doing my own clip. But I did all the work myself. A little patience helps. That and if you remember to measure twice and cut once! ( Props to Norm!)

What is wrong with the 77 Firebird stuff?

nothing is wrong with it, i figured that it might be easier to use a crossmember and not cut the frame to save the hassle of trying to rig stuff up to allign the front body panals again.
????

i have a 49chev with a pacer front end .i to used the chassis engineering kit.it does fit nice and was simple.although opted to weld instead of bolt it.yes finding one will be the problem.check pacerpage and other amc websites they are still around. pst(performance suspension technoligies) is a good source for pacer parts along with autozone and others.hemmings motor news is another source for parts.from start to finish the crossmember was welded in in less than two hrs. iuse a 75 chev van coloum shortened 4" and two borgeson joints. the drawback to the ce kit is you have to run cast iron exhaust they say headers will not fit although sanderson claims they have some that will work.ce also makes a bolt in motor mount kit and a transmisson crossmember that uses the stock mounting holes to correctly align it. although i have a mp brakes powerbooster set up in the stock location abd did have to slightly notch the trans crossmember so the mastercycl would clear,and the brake arm lands in the middle of the exhaust so it will have to be bent like the clutch pedal to clear.i also used their bolt in rearend kit new 2 1/2 springs upperand lower shockmounts shocks an shackles .they also have an optional rear sway bar togo withthe pacers front. it really cleaned up the rear of the frame and gave me a 5" drop. no i do not work for ce just use their products i think they are high quality and resonably priced. especially with someone with limited fabrication skills like me. i also did cut i coil to bring down the front a little more once the rest of the sheetmetal is installed it should be just right........dave

will i need to narrrow a 77 firebird front sub frame?

Is there a link to one that anyone knows of with pictures and imfo?

I haven't had the need to yet. If you do, Fatman Fabrications makes narrowed "A" arms.

I spend a little time at Streetrodding.com. Great bunch and if you do a search for sub frame there is a project with pics that will give you a good idea of what is involved. Chassis Engineering has good products and A+ tech.

If you are still considering different front end bolt-ins instead of chopping the frame to weld on a front clip, don't forget the Volare, some people really like that one too. There was a thread on that here not too long ago with a link to some pictures.

BTW-

The advantage to the Mustang II is that there are tons of parts out there for that set up. It seems like everyone carries the rack, springs, arms, shocks, discs, bushings, calipers, upgrade kits, etc... All that stuff will work just as well on a MII from a junk yard or an aftermarket seller.

Pacer and Volare are harder to repair/replace/ upgrade just 'cause they're less common and have been out of production for a long time.

The advice I got regarding front sheet metal alignment on a clipped car went something like this: Measure the living daylights out of it before taking it apart. Make up a framework out of square tube or angle stock that mounts off the cab and will hold the front sheet metal in position without the front of the frame. Then do the clip swap. Then use the framework to help you put everything back in place.

My truck (a '39-'46) came to me already clipped ('78 camaro), and I'm working on getting the front metal lined back up, and wished I had a framework like that. I think a '39 is narrower than yours, and I think I'll be able to fit my wheels under the fenders, but I won't be able to lower it much, and I'm ordering wheels with custom backspacing to make it work. The Fatman narrowed control arms are something like $700, and I don't want to spend that kind of money if I cna avoid it. Narrowing a clip seems to defeat the purpose of making it easier.

When you're figuring out cost, keep in mind how much it'll cost to rebuild that '77 front end. I've got 40+ hours and several hundred dollars in bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, rotors, a new steering box, flex lines etc etc etc. You might already have the clip, but it might not be the cheapest option.

I have a 73 Camaro clip in my 53. I think that's the same as the Firebird. It works great. I have 15 X 5 aftermarket Ralley wheels on the front with 205/75/15 tires. My truck sets pretty low. The tire does rub the fender brace when I'm in a tight turn like turning in my driveway, which is also slightly up hill.
I put a MII in my 48 and think that's a nice clean setup. It's still a project so I can't say how good it works, but I do like the wheels sitting further in the fenders.
I was sold on the MII after I put one in my 34. I went from a drop axle to MII and the car drives 100% better and feels safer. MII parts are here to stay and are in half of the streetrods you see.
Just my opinion.

I am asuming you are just using the crossmember?
anyone know the best place to get a mustang two front end?

I have built 8 AD trucks using all the mentioned IFS. I like the GM-G bodies the best(they are like the Camaro/Firebird only 3" narrower). They are the best ride & handle the best of the group. www.meyerbrosrods.com

Don

On the first truck I built, A 53 chev. I had rubbing problems on tight turns. So on this one I moved the sub frame back an inch to help cure the problem.

Just my 2 more cents.

wilbur