So I have had good luck installing new NOS bearings correctly installed everywhere on the pinion shaft assembly and nice parts new ring gear installed new carrier bearings, I keep reading mostly the Chevy manual although I’ve looked at several other articles from the various members on the site. Everyone has a different answer. Should I go by the shim selection of the Chevy manual which suggests using one 0.18” shim when installing new ring and pinion or should I short cut to some other shim selection? What I had in there originally was one 0.15 shim and it was a sloppy mess with huge backlash, at least 0.70
I’m going thru this gear swap right now and can’t find a source of pinion shims but I’m working on a 40’s rear. Can you find shims for the 50’s? Think the 0.18 was the stock starting point and adjusted up/down at the factory and marked on the pinion.
There is no "standard" pinion shim thickness. The whole purpose of shimming gears is to correct for manufacturing tolerances that add up and build in errors in tooth contact patterns. OEM pinion gears had depth adjustment information electro-penciled on the back end of the gear, which might be "(+4)"- - - -"(-3)", etc., which indicates the distance in thousandths of an inch from the centerline of the ring gear the pinion gear needs to be positioned. If the markings on the original gearset can still be inspected, a WAG can be made about how to alter the shim pack. Final tooth contact patterns MUST be checked and adjusted as required, using some type of indicator dye such as Prussian Blue or white lead. Somehow, I think it's impossible to get a backlash of nearly 3/4" "(.7)" ?????? Maybe that was intended to be ".070"? Yes, decimal points and place-holder zeros do matter! There's no substitute for an extensive amount of experience in setting up rear ends, except maybe blind luck! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
So I have had good luck installing new NOS bearings correctly installed everywhere on the pinion shaft assembly and nice parts new ring gear installed new carrier bearings, I keep reading mostly the Chevy manual although I’ve looked at several other articles from the various members on the site. Everyone has a different answer. Should I go by the shim selection of the Chevy manual which suggests using one 0.18” shim when installing new ring and pinion or should I short cut to some other shim selection? What I had in there originally was one 0.15 shim and it was a sloppy mess with huge backlash, at least 0.70
Running in a 54 half ton with a 53 gear carrier
Thanks Todd
The pinion shim will not have any impact on the backlash, it will have an effect on the contact pattern of where the pinion rides on the ring gear, I would start out with shim thickness of .023 since you had a .015 in there originally. You stated .15" but surely you meant .015" Backlash is adjusted with the side to side nuts on either side of the differential side bearings.
1953 Chevrolet 3100 261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done In the DITY Gallery Video of the 261 running
1964 GMC 1000 305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
So you are all right with my decimal point being off. Please take a look at these and let me know your thoughts, I think I am close. The shims I am using are 1 - .018 and 1 - .012 let me know your thoughts.
I think your contact is a little high on the ring gear teeth. You also need to look at the coast side pattern. Here's a pic I got off the web. It would indicate that you need a little more shim thickness on the pinion. But again, you need to look at both drive and coast patterns.
I see that you're reusing the carrier that the pinion ate into. Hope you at least deburred it and cleaned everything up.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Almost there, If it were me try a little more pinion shim, no more than .003 to start with. Looks like you are working with a deep bore carrier. You are getting there, keep creeping up on it.
Last edited by sstock; 11/18/20192:11 AM.
1953 Chevrolet 3100 261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done In the DITY Gallery Video of the 261 running
1964 GMC 1000 305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
Be sure to load the gears as hard as possible when turning the pinion to check tooth pattern, and always use the pinion to turn the gears, not the ring when checking. Another really good trick is to take a new pinion bearing and have the center honed out for a slip fit on the pinion gear, use this bearing to set up with, once you are happy with the set up, replace the slip fit bearing with a press fit. If the pinion bearing is tough to get back off, cut some steel shim material to fit behind the race. The races are pretty easy to knock to and put back in.
I tend to agree on the pattern shown, needs to be a bit deeper into the ring gear.
I got you confused with another member who had the pinion bearings go and the pinion contact the differential carrier. Yours isn't as bad as his, but still, I'd be a bit concerned with that much metal running around inside the pumpkin. Check out the damage on his carrier. Crunched differential
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Kevin, the carrier was an extra that I sent him, it had some marks on it but checked out ok.
1953 Chevrolet 3100 261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done In the DITY Gallery Video of the 261 running
1964 GMC 1000 305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
I think every diff carrier I have ever seen illustrating a repair or replace article had some form of marks on them including the old one I removed from my truck in no worse condition that the one I show in the picture. It had lots of backlash and run-out but not blown-out.
This Diff has all new bearing sets for the entire rear end, NOS Hyatt and NOS New Departure on the pinion and NOS GMC on the carrier.
Looking forward to the day I get to take it out for the first run.
All I know is that the engineers didn't design them so the pinion hits the differential carrier. Something has gone wrong on those that are marked up to reduce the clearance between the pinion and carrier. Wear in the pinion bearings, which would increase backlash as well as axial movement of the pinion, could easily account for the interference markings. That metal that used to be on the carrier had to go somewhere, and would increase the wear rate of everything. If yours was checked out and cleared for use, then that's good.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
The most common cause of that damage to a carrier is a badly worn or destroyed front pinion bearing. When the driver lets off the throttle, the pinion gear gets sucked back against the carrier. I've also seen a loose pinion nut cause the same sort of problem. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!