The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline knuckle spindle hub questions

I'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to move forward on my 1955.2 GMC 150 (3/4 ton 8 lug)

I am having the same issue as a lot of people and cant find a good way to get rid of the outdated front wheel ball bearings

My questions are
1 is the knuckle and spindle cast as one piece or is the spindle pressed into the knuckle???

2 has anyone tried to have a billet hub or spindle/ knuckle made to fit a more common bearing?

3 or lastly a different knuckle that could be adapted to fit?

I want to keep my 8 lug wheels and swap to disk brakes.

Isn't the obsession with ball VS roller bearings actually a solution in search of a problem? I don't recall hubs falling off of trucks on a regular basis back when these rigs were used like trucks, instead of pampered Cowboy Cadillacs that might get a max load of an iced-down Yeti cooler on tailgate day. Properly lubed and torqued ball bearings were carrying maximum loads on a daily basis before a lot of the current owners of these trucks were even born. "If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?"
Jerry

Should be possible with enough head scratching.

It wasn't on a truck like yours, but if it helps for ideas; check out these pictures of bearing/hub conversion for fitting toyota pickup hubs on napco axle:

I made some adapter sleeves to use toyota bearings that happen to have bigger ID:
Sleeves slide onto the original spindle with approx .002-.005 diameter clearance (best I could do)
The original seal surface of spindle was barely big enough to still use as a thrust surface against inner bearing race.
And i had to browse the timken seal catalog to find a seal that would work for the new diameter combination... seals are available for just about anything.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KC85wUt.jpg[/img]


Then, for brakes i made a bracket to bolt on where the drum backing plate used to go:
Started with plywood for a test fit
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Upb19hR.jpg?1[/img]

Then got the steel yard guys to plasma cut it from 3/8 steel
[img]https://i.imgur.com/VC2Smbe.jpg?1[/img]

It's been working for ~6months & couple thousand miles with no issues yet
[img]https://i.imgur.com/3f98PgL.jpg?1[/img]

If you are looking for bolt on set up where all the holes line up and you can slip them on in a weekend then I can't help. If you have a lathe and a mill and know how to use them then I can give you a couple of possible approaches. Let me know.

Didn't think there was an easy approach. otherwise I would swap it out for newer independent front suspension.

As for mine it will be used as a truck and will be pulling camper, boat, hauling supplies ect… That's why I went with 3/4 ton and not planning on building a car that looks like a truck.

I would feel safer with more modern bearings since with my engine tranny and rear swap this thing will see regular speeds of 70+ miles per hour. So combining the speed and disk brakes with larger radial tires I don't like the idea of puny ball bearings.

The early Dana 44 has bolt on spindles and was used by many companies for their 4wd trucks. The 4wd Jeep Wagoneers in the 80's had a regular truck type hollow spindle that was a bolt on unit. An eight bolt disc/hub/bearing set up will most likely require custom machining of sleeves, spacers, adapters but once you have all the measurements spend time on the Timken "bearings by dimension" site and see what comes up.

Any of the circle track racers' supply outfits like JEGS, Racer's Wholesale, etc. will have bolt-on front spindles for the "wide 5" full-floating front hubs, which are clones of Ford 3/4 ton rear axle load tubes. Those have been in use since the late 1940's or so to provide heavy duty hubs and bearings on round track race cars. I'm sure there are also disc brake systems made by Wilwood and others instead of the big drum brakes we used on the right front back in the 1970's. That's several orders of magnitude of overkill, but there's no need to reinvent the wheel when properly-engineered brake and bearing upgrades are available over the counter.
Jerry

Just shooting off from this, but I seem to remember the 2x4 postal jeeps and vans using the same frame as a 4x4 and the same knuckles and attaching parts but just a solid tube with no pumpkin or lockouts.
Which should be pretty easy to take a set from a junk d44 chevy 3/4 ton and gaing ball joints, disk brakes, and much larger bearings in one shot. Only question is how much height will I gain with a straight axle vs the factory drop i beam axle?

Use the original axle and spindle, and bolt the dirt track load tube over the spindle, using the backing plate bolt holes. Cut the original spindle back a little if necessary. That's how we did it on the 55-57 Chevy spindles everybody ran back then. You might have to fabricate caliper mounts to fit whatever disc and caliper assembly you choose to use. All this is basic "Dirt Track 101" redneck engineering.

When I'm fabricating a brake system from scratch, I get the spindle and hub mated properly, decide on a disc to use, and then use air pressure to hold the caliper and pads clamped tightly onto the disc. Then it's simply a matter of fabricating suitable caliper brackets to attach to the spindle to hold the caliper in the correct relationship with the disc. Make a template of thin plywood or even layers of cardboard glued together to fine-tune the shape of the caliper brackets before you start whittling on steel!

Jerry

basically thats how the d44 spindles are. 6 bolts holding the spindle and caliper brackets on and haa a small lip that sets into a groove in the knuckles.

Sounds like a good idea to try.

Now I just need an original 3/4 ton knuckle to experiment with.

How do you intend to adapt that knuckle to the straight axle and kingpin assembly?
Jerry

Not looking to adapt. Looking at either modifying the original spindle (machining or shims or spacers to fit modern bearings and rotors). Machining knuckle to accept a newer spindle. Or mocking up a hybrid of newer spindle and older knuckle and having one made from a casting or billet piece.

I just need an old knuckle or 2 to start with and those can have damaged bearing surfaces and or damaged threads and it wont effect it since those would be the part I would be modifying anyway.

The kingpin setup is really a very simple design you just have to make sure angles are kept as factory designed.

I think the big problem here that makes me nervous about the ball bearings is that number one going from 50mph max to 75mph easily, and two the added heat from disk brakes, and three the increased load from wider tires and radial tires to boot.

Add all 3 together and I don't think the small actual surface area of the ball bearings will handle it for long.

I think you're reinventing the wheel. I'd just machine a load tube to slip over the existing spindle and use the wide 5 type hub that's been proven to work for over 50 years under loads far exceeding anything you'll ever encounter on the road. Go ahead and waste a lot of time, energy, and money doing it your way, however.
Jerry

that is one of the basic ways I was looking at. but I definitely don't want the wide 5 bolt pattern. and with that design it will have large hubs sticking out.

Machining a few sleeves or spacers will not be that time consuming and should work just fine.

I am in no rush. This is not a hurry up and get on the road project. I just got an idea of what I want in a finished product and appreciate every bit of the ideas on how to get there that I receive.

Some have given me more ideas, some have changed my mind, and some I just wont use. Doesnt mean they are bad just means they are not for me.

At the moment I am just looking at all possibilities and once I start hands on I will use what looks like the best way for me to use.

Just as a thought, has anyone tried grafting the front clip from a full size pickup from the 70's or 80's ? Just the suspension and not the whole piece of frame.
If so what kind of issues with this type of swap did you run into?

The track will be about 4" too wide- - - -the tires will rub on the fenders, especially in a turn, unless the front sheet metal is raised high enough to prevent tire/body interference.
Jerry

ok, thanks.

Is that with the stock front clip or was it narrowed in the center?

I'm considering doing something similar on a 59 Suburban I've had stored for 20-something years. It's already got a 3/4 ton Dana type 60 rear axle from a mid-70's GMC under it. I'm considering installing the front crossmember and independent front suspension from a 3/4 ton Chevy in place of the straight front axle. It looks like I'll have to narrow the crossmember about 3 inches, and shorten the relay rod an equal amount. Then I'll need to fabricate mounting points for the steering gear and idler arm and get the geometry right on all that new construction. There just aren't any shortcuts to making major changes to suspension systems, but 30-something years of building dirt track race car frames helps out a lot!
Jerry

Got 2 knuckles on the way. now for the fun part of trying to figure which rotor will be the best candidate for the swap. And will I be machining the spindle down and or using sleeves and or spacers to make it all work. Either way I'm pretty sure I can come up with some combo to make it work.

Just as an FYI I got a chance to do the measurements for front crossmember swap.

the 55 to 59 frame is 34in wide outside.
the 73 to 87 frame is 34in at front cab mounts but only 28.5 inches at the front axle centerline and gets smaller towards the front.

So its a definite no on the fit of the complete front suspension.
Might work with a front frame graft but I don't want to cut my frame.