The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 32/36 carb install on 1957 235

Hi,

I installed a new 32/36 carb (manual choke) on my 235 but I'm having an issue getting it tuned in.
There is a mini HEI installed. It was installed and running before new carb). I haven't check the timing but it doesn't sound out of time when running.
I've verified the timing order.

I have the new 32/36 carb installed. Here is my starting procedure and the issue I'm running into.
I set the choke closed. I start the motor and let it warm up. The motor sounds good and it isn't missing or anything.
I then hit the gas pedal to disengage the choke and the engine won't idle.
If I pull the choke closed and hit the gas I can get the engine to back idling. I then push the choke open( verified butterfly closed) and engine runs at fast idle.
But once I hit the gas pedal to disengage the fast idle, the motor won't idle.
If I increase the idle screw or idle mixture screw to increase the idle, I get the same condition when I disengage the fast idle.

I used carb cleaner and checked all my carb mounts and vacuum line connections and I don't seem to have a vacuum leak.
If I run the engine with the fuel pump to carb line disconnected I am getting clean gas into a container. So I don't seem to have a fuel delivery problem, but I can put a fuel pressure gauge on the output side of the fuel pump to check. This is not a brand new fuel pump, it was used prior to carb replacement.
I installed brand new plugs RJ18YC6 and gapped them correctly at .060.
I pulled the idle jet and ran a wire through it to ensure it wasn't clogged.

Note: I’ve had this engine for 6 months. It wasn’t running when I got it. I cleaned the rochester B carb with a lot of cleaner and used non-ethanol gas. The truck was then running and drivable, but the engine seemed a little sluggish at 3/4 throttle. A few weeks ago I was driving the truck and it stalled. I couldn’t get the truck running correctly after that. I pulled the plugs and they were black with soot. It seemed like a carb issue, so that is why I wanted to upgrade to a 32/36 carb.

I'm scratching my head on this one.
Does anyone have any recommendations on what I can check next?

Thanks,
Joe

There is always the possibility of bad gas. Its rare, but it happens. A small boat engine tank setup including the hose with the priming bulb works well for supplying a temporary supply of known good gas.

I cannot help with the 32/36 (banned from our shop); however:

You have issues with TWO DIFFERENT carburetors. Quite possible that the carb(s) are not the issue.

As Carl mentioned, there is a possibility of bad gasoline (it goes bad in 6~8 weeks).

I would suggest trying the auxiliary fuel tank with known fuel as Carl suggested. If that doesn't help, then a compression test, followed by an ignition test.

If the fuel doesn't help, the compression TESTS good, and the ignition TESTS good; then is the time to look at the fuel system.

Jon.

Thanks for the input.

The gas is ethanol free and fresh. I'm running the same gas from the same can, in a different older car. I don't believe the engine wouldn't run and idle so well if the gas was bad.

True, I'm having issues with two different carburetors but they are different issues though. The 32/36 runs the engine strong when it idles, I just can't get it tuned. The rochester B wouldn't even run the engine.

I ran a compression test on each cylinder and I'm around 110 for each cylinder. The new plugs that have about 10 minutes on them are already dirty black.
The resistance on each spark plug cable ranges from .933 for the longest cable to .675 to the shortest cable. The wires look cosmetically fine.
The mini hei coil low side resistance is .001.
The fuel pump pressure is 3.5 when I can get the engine idling.

Again, it starts and runs fine with the choke engaged. If I hit the gas to disengage the choke, the engine won't idle. If re-engage the choke and feather the gas pedal I can get it to idle. The choke butterfly is open, but the 32/36 must have a fast idle choke, because the idle increases significantly and keeps the engine running.
If I hit the gas pedal again and increase the engine rpm, the carb wants to die.
I've messed with the idle and idle mixture adjustments, but I can't get it to idle correctly.

If I hit full throttle it runs fine, then once the rpms it stalls from not enough gas. Then if run it off choke, it gets too little gas for regular idle (unless the fast idle choke kicks in).
Weird, I'm stumped.

I love the 32/36 carb, especially the ford pinto variant, when used on a dual carb set up. As a single carb, I have never been able to get one to run really well on a 235. It just seems the primary is just too small, and the carb overall I think is too small for single use, even on a 235. You have to open the throttle blade to far exposing the transition circuit which just compounds the problem.

Just asking here, where do you have your vacuum advance line hooked up? The reason I ask is that in my experience, while the Weber’s have a vacuum port for the advance, there is not enough signal to allow the advance to work correctly. I have generally had to use full manifold vacuum. You might also check your vacuum advance just to make sure the diaphragm is still good and not leaking.

What year head are you running? If you are running the late 54-55 5913 head, or the 56-62 848 head, and you want to run champion spark plugs, try j12y, rj12y (older numbers) or the current variants the j12yc or the rj12yc. If you want a little hotter plug (temperature) go to the j14y and j14y variants.

The engine block is a 57 and the head is standard 235 head 54/55.
The vacuum advance is hooked up to vacuum hose port on the 32/36 carb.

I'll check the vacuum advance next.

I would put in the j12yc plugs, run your vacuum line to full manifold vacuum (use the vacuum port on the intake manifold) and cap off the port on the carb, temporally block off the vacuum line at the vacuum advance and set the timing to tdc or maybe even 2 or 3 degrees advanced to start, then reconnect the line, readjust the idle and mixture and see what that does.

This is what Langdon says about the 32/36. Also says that need to be installed in pairs.

I'm with Jon- - - -it would be difficult to run fast enough to give me a 32/36 carburetor!
Jerry

The web page doesn't state it needs to run as a dual carb setup, the 32/36 can be ran in a single configuration on a stock manifold. I talked to Langdon when I ordered it because I had a question about the linkage.

Thanks Mike.

I tested the vacuum on the carb port and I'm getting 13 hg when idling. I will check the vacuum advance diaphragm tomorrow.
I looked earlier but didn't see a vacuum port on the intake manifold. Where is the vacuum port located (it probably is plugged)?

I can check and adjust the timing next.

It appears that you have done a thorough job of ruling out everything other than the carburetor (which is the correct way to do troubleshooting in my opinion).
So what is next? The carburetor.
You mention that the model B wouldn't run the engine. Then you installed a carburetor which seemingly needs numerous manipulations to make it work on your engine. Not exactly plug and play it seems. Maybe it will work if you tweak it enough. Maybe the new carburetor is bad. It would have been cool if you could have bolted it on and be on your way, but it didn't. Now you are banging your head on the work bench (understandably so).
Time to regroup. Find someone who has a Model B from a running 235, or better yet, a carter 2100 who will loan it to you for trouble shooting purposes.
Carl

Can you run the idle speed screw out enough to idle the engine with the choke fully open?

As with most carbs, your idle mixture setting should work at 1.5 turns out, enough to get it started and idling.

Since you're running an HEI it'll be hard to verify if your static timing is set correctly. Timing that's too retarded won't idle no matter how you set the carb.

That 32/36 should start and idle fine, if it has any shortcomings it should show up when the engine is under load needing max gas, idle doesn't require alot of gas.

recommendation:
Mark your distributor so you can put it back then advance it a hair at a time while trying to idle.It doesn't take much to advance. Crank the idle speed screw up enough to maintain idle with the choke fully open.
If you've got the original points dist I'd try it.

FYI's, I'm running dual CW 32/34's (Langdon used to carry them) and while I was tuning them I could get the engine to both start and idle on one carb. The 32/36 is a bigger carb so it should start and idle your engine.

Good luck
Dave

I knew I had read not for single use but it was for this carb.
(Rebuilt) Motorcraft 32/32 Carburetor with electric choke
(Rebuilt) Motorcraft 32/32 Carburetor with electric choke
SKU 08-3232Rebuilt
(Like a Weber 32 DFT) These progressive two (2) barrel carburetors are rebuilt, with an electric choke. These carburetor s were originally used on a very small (1.9L) engine and are not recommended for single carburetors usage on engines larger than this, but are an excellent choice for dual carb…
$125.00

I just listed 3 NOS Carter 3211s carburetors in the "for sale" section. I'm also with Jon and Jerry. The 3211s should be a better option than the 32/36. Good luck.

I am sure you are getting that vacuum but that port does not seem to work well. I would still try full manifold vacuum (side of intake manifold, where vacuum wiper hose would go) and see if the distributor is moving pretty good when you blip the gas.

I have the carb setup and tuned. It retrospect, it was a very easy setup once I figured out what I needed to be done.
I will document what I had to do in an effort to help the next guy.

The 32/36 carb I received from Langdon didn't include adjustment instructions or a carb illustration.
Here is what I figured out to get it setup.

The 32/36 has three main adjustments (Idle, Idle mixture, fast Idle).
The idle adjustment is in awkward location behind the manual choke. It can only be seen from the firewall. A 8mm wrench is used to adjust the idle.
The idle mixture is on the back passenger side of the carb and a screwdriver is used for adjusting. It can be seen from the passenger fender.
The fast idle adjustment is on the back of the linkage and is accessed from the front of the carb with a screwdriver.
The idle jet is a screw to the right of the choke on the passenger side front carb.

I removed the idle jet and used a very thin wire to ensure the jet was clear from any obstruction. I then reinstalled the idle jet.
I started the engine and adjusted the fast idle for cold starts. I then let the engine warm up and disengaged the choke including the fast idle.
I backed out the idle adjustment screw so it wasn't touching the linkage. Then turned the idle screw in 1 full turn.
I bottomed out the idle mixture screw and then unscrewed 2 full turns.
I was then able to start the engine and idle.
I adjusted the idle mixture screw, and then idle screw.

I then took the truck for a test drive.
It has good take-off and strong acceleration through each gear.
Boy Howdy what an upgrade from the Rochester B!

I am very happy with how the engine performs with the 32/36 carb.


Thanks for the input.

Thanks Mike. I'll check that out next.