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Recently picked up a '49 1/2 ton frame with a '69 nova front clip. I put a 472 cid in my Suburban and was a straight forward application. I would like to install a 500cid in this frame set up for my 51 chev. I promised my truck that one day it would be treated right, and now after 24 years of loyal service it is about time for me to keep my end of the bargain. Anybody had any experience with this type of an application?

I looked in to replace my Pontiac 455 with a 500" Cady. The 500" is real close to the same size as a big block Chevy. You can make BB Chev headers fit by cutting off the flange and welding Cadillac
header flanges on. There are some companys making good after market race parts for the big engines. I can't remember the name right now. I would think if a big block would fit the Nova's it should fit your truck. They are pretty wide though. Thats where I would start. Fender well to fender well. Front to back should be OK. Joe

Thanx Joe, I know the 500's are not much heavier than a 350 (for suspension that is), I was wondering about the width versus the fender wells? 454 application required some extensive cutting of them, with the width of the 500 do you think 472 manifolds would clear. They sure have a nice airflow to them. Do you know what disc brakes would work as a conversion for the stock front 69 nova drum brakes?? thanx, Ric

PS One of the Company's that I have received good service from for Caddy performance parts is Maximum Torque Specialties in Wisconsin, I'll get
you the number if you would like, I do not have it handy right now. RR

get your disc parts from any Nova 68 to 74. some of the Chevelles are also the same just don't have the info in front of me at this time.

thanks Jack, have not dealt with cars at all. Was not sure if the nova's of that era had disc brake options or not. Thanx, RR

Thanks Jack, have not dealt with cars at all. Was not sure if the Nova's of that era had disc brake options or not. Thanx, RR

Putting my 69 Chevy 3/4 ton back together, I added power steering and now the fender well is competing for room wioth the PS lines at the box. Is there a different fender well for stock PS models? I will probably end up trimming the well as it does not need much clearance. RR

I thought one of the big advantages of a caddy engine was it weighed more like an SBC then a BBC?

Ranger Ric: I have a 454 in a '54 3100 pickip. I did not have to cut the fender wells for the engine at all. I used a Monte Carlo clip.

>I was wondering about the width versus the >fender wells? 454 application required some >extensive cutting of them,

Solowookie and Banjo, first off howdy and thanks for the reply, here is what I have found.
the 500 and the 350 are very similiar in weight, in fact if you put an aftermarket alluminum Intake on the caddy you weigh less than a 350. If you wnat I will look up the weights for you. The Caddy is a thin wall nickel cast very light weight design but disperses alot of heat under the hood. I drive the Suburban in eastern washington summers and have never overheated/vapor locked (90-100+ degrees) for long miles. The motor is stock and has 525 ftlbs of torque and 365 horse stock and gets about 15 mpg (if the wife drives)much less if I drive, ha. I would not trade the application for any other motor. As for the fender well cuttin on the the 454 application, I have only seen one, and he had put his power steering box on the outside of the frame. As I remember there was some exhaust clearances in the equastion as well???? I'm not sure. I will have to check it out further. Thanx for the info, RR

Rick, I believe that 500 inch Cad has 550 ft lbs torque! But what is 25 ft lbs give or take when you are talking that much
Check out this link, if you want to see REAL torque.....You'll toss those Chevies .

http://www.cad500parts.com/

I got a running 472 I can get my hands on for $200... I'm thinkin real hard, but not for this project.

It's been awhile but I think the Nova's and Chevelle's, Camero's, and any of the Gm A-bodys will interchange front brakes. I don't think you even have to change the spindles. Like I said its been a while so I could be wrong. I'am sure of the Chevelle's and Camero's and other GM A-Body. I would think the Nova and Camero used the same.

You might check with Master Power Brakes for a Kit. They are on the web somewhere. I bought a conversion kit for my '37 and it fit and works great. I checked with NAPA and a few other stores here in town for piece parts. Even with my company discount, I could not buy all the parts cheaper than they sold the kit for, and everything is matched. My kit used '73 Camero rotors and calipers, hoses, and outer bearings. This makes it easy to service down the road.

Are you going to use power brakes. I used to dragrace and only had manual disk/drums. It stop just fine using a '69 Chevelle manual disk/drum master cylinder. I think this is the same one Corvette's used. It has a bigger fluid storage than power set ups.

Just a side note, there is a guy here in town who has a pulling truck with a 500" cad. You can't even here it running. It just quietly pulls the sled out the gate every time.

Keep us informed on the progress. You are going to make Jonny Cash proud! One piece at a time!
Joe

Ric, the spindles are not quit the same. The drum brake spindles need .625 taken off the backing plate mounting boss. The only thing you really need to get your hands is the caliper brkts. The calipers and pads can be bought at any auto parts store. It will cost a heck of a lot less than from Master Power Brake. If you can't find the brkts local try E-bay.

ric, update on the spindles. 64-72 intermediate front steer, 67-69 Camaro and 68-74 Nova all use the same spindle. This info comes from a source I consider very reliable.

Oops I stand corrected, yes the 500 has 550 ftlbs of torque. My 472 has only a meager 525 ftlbs of torque . Joe and Jack thanx for the info on the spindles and brake applications, I believe I know where I can find those vehicles sitting right now, very cheap ( he owes me a favor).
Solowookie grab up that motor if you can, that is a real good price and always a nice addition for the garage corner or that future project. I have a feeling as popularity grows these motors will become more and more expensive. Martinsr thanx for the Link it is bookmarked and ready for future use. Seeing that Sedan deville pulling the front wheels off the ground may have got another project off the ground as well. My 38' 55 kenworth bus needs a new power plant....hmmm.
Any ideas guys? thanx again RR

hey hey ranger rick welcome to stovebolt
i waz going to ask you guys about the diffrence in weight between de cad and me 67-425 cube olds motor

and owow you got a 38' 55 k-wopper bus you get de coolamundo award for de day send pics to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pleeeease

for de walls of and i promise i'll leave de twinkies in you lunch box next time i sneeeeks into de stovebolt camp lookin for goodies

Bullfoot, I have not jumped that far into the techy age :confused: . It may take me awhile to get photo's over this contraption. I will though, I promise.
I use to have a 57 chevy 2 1/2 ton flat bed, 327 4spd with a 2spd rear end. Wonderful truck still had the original bed. What a worker, unfortunately the driveway got to full and someone came by waving cash.
Thanx for the reply, RR

Hey i just noticed that I graduated to
"Shop Shark". What determines when you leave apprentice wrench fetcher status behind :confused: . On my way to Spokane to do some junk yard grazing and probably a lot of drooling. Thanx for all the good tips, i have my shopping list ready. RR

Jack, getting back to a tip you gave me. Can you explain the backing plate mounting boss that needs to be cut down .625. i am trying to visualize and not having any luck. thanx, RR

Wait I just read the posts again and your next one said they all use the same spindle, so i do not have to cut the boss down???
Thanx, RR

your number of posts increased your ranking. from there you get a diff ranking by the members voting on you.

hey hey ranger rick click on this the rocket

Hey guys.. mind if I jump in here with a question??
Ive got a 53 gmc with a 81 firebird subframe, and that 500 cadzilla motor sounds real tempting. Only i've already got a sbc and a standard tranny. Could keep the motor for something else, but the tranny in my 53 "has" to be a standard......What choices do you get, if any , to put a standard tranny behind a "500" Caddy motor????

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Rick,the spindle is the same except for the mounting boss, sorry I didn't make that clear in the later post. The mounting boss is where the bolt that holds the backing plate at the top goes, it sticks out .625 farther on the drum brake application. On the disc brake spindle this holds the caliper brkt at the top.

the caddy motors will not bolt up to a standard tranny unless you take the crank to get it ground. you can use and BOP tranny with it though (th400, th350, 700r4). you saying this is has to be a standard, but your easiest option would be to get the tranny & engine out of the same car.

Jack, thanx for the clarrification, sometimes i am a little slow. I believe i've got it now and will go out and look at it tomorrow. Just got back from grazing in spokane and found a few goodies. Some for the 69 but none for the 51 . Not much out there in the way of 50's fat fenders, the yard i was in anyway. It is a "oops it didn't pass the emission test end of the road yard" all parts have the same price, no matter what you take it off of. eg. door of of a caddy or a vega are all the same price etc. etc..
Mjr crash yes you have to get the crank ground and buy a clutch and fly wheel set up big enough to hold that much torque into tire wrinkling, pavement melting, bead spinning...oops I'm sorry once I get started. There are several aftermarket companies that offer such parts. If you look back in the posts there is a link to the cad company.
And last but not least "the rocket" what a truck. Made mine look pretty sad, but as they say love is in the eyes of the beholder. Mine only had one small problem, the bunjee cord that held the drivers door shut needed replaced which made right hand corners interesting at times . Other than that though she had a lot of potential, I'll try to find a pic and put it up with the others. thanx for all the info, RR

I guess the "Has" to be is a matter of opinion that could be argued all day, But when I get in a "Street Rod" my left foot needs a clutch pedal, not a dimmer switch . And my right hand needs a shifter, not a cell phone! If it dosn't make it take off faster ,or stop better, it's not needed.
Will a tranny out from behind a 350 "bolt" up to the 500 block , or do I need a diferant bell housing? You say the crank needs to be ground.How so? A flywheel from a 454 apparently won't do the trick ? This 500 Idea sound better all the time , I need INFO ! How do you spell tim the tool mans grunt? aarruuugh arruuugh. ?
More Power!

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Philippians 4:13

you need a BOP tranny - buick, olds, or pontiac.

Mjr Crash,
http://www.cad500parts.com/ They should have info
on your quest for "4speedn" your caddy.
Yes, and you can do all things..... so this should not be a problem. RR

Hey Ric,
Thanks for the web site info! It should come in handy!

Doug
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Hey if any of you are out California way my buddy has a 500 inch Cad with a bunch of goodies, totally pro built for about $3,000.00

Hello to all, well just got back from the reality garage and the concensus is that the 55 kenworth bus is the winner of the next 5oo tranplant. I found a caddy 4oo trans for 50 bucks, was gone through shortly before the end of the deville's life. Will keep you updated as the project goes, should be fun though. Question to the brains of the bunch;
500 Cid With 6.17 gears and 10.00x20 tires am i going to get 60 mph or should I look at 11.00x24 tires or possibly a two speed over drive :confused: :confused:

Ric
Im going to the old car retirment yard to look for a cadd 500 . what are the tell tale signs to identify the 500 . Just in case there isnt a big sign pointing at the engine saying " this is a 500".What years were they made? Were they only in a certain kind of caddy, like a coupe deville or a sedan deville ETC.?

Thanks; Crash

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Phillipians 4:13

Mjr Crash,
Sorry I have been away for awhile had some travelling to do. Cadillacs from 1970-1976 had the 500's. Eldorados and some rear wheel drives had them as well, the 472's are the same years. You need some 472 parts to convert from front wheel drive 500 to your application.
The drivers side manifold and the oil filter mount is the two needed parts from a 472 to use an Eldorado 500 in a conversion. Now the earlier years are the higher horsepower the 1970 500, as I remember is the biggest monster. Weighing in at 400 ponys 550ftlbs of torque and 10.5 to 1 compression. That is the one downfall with that motor trying to buy gas today to feed that compression. My ideal motor is the 71 5oo same output with 8.5 to 1 compression. If the motor is out the 500 front wheel drive model, it is identifialble by the driverside manifold, it turns and the exit port sticks out sideways, right toward the fenderwell. I always look for the tuneup sticker that is the easiest way. I'm not sure if the vin # has an identifier or not check with the cad company as well they may be able to give you some tips. If you have more questions I will get out what paperwork and read up on them again. I recently moved and locating it may me interesting. Let me know, how it goes. RR

the 500 came in 70-76 Eldos and 75-76 full size in most swaps you will need the rear sump pan which is off the Eldo motor sometimes you can get by using what is refered to as a 3/4 rear sump from a 77-79 425. The only sure way to tell a 500 from a 472 is check the stroke, 4.060 for the 472 and 4.304 for the 500. vin number will work if its the original motor. In the 71-76 the fifth digit of the vin will be S for 500 and R for the 472. For a web site with a lot of good Cad info www.mts.simplenet.com He's a good guy to deal with and has a wealth of knowledge on the Caddys.

well I'd think if a guy could get his hands on a 472 or a 500 life would be good...

Mjr. Crash, unless you are really set on the manual application, I would avoid it. I have gone through a lot of trouble to be able to put a manual transmission behind the 500 slated for my pickup. Although it isn't insurmountable, it can be expensive. Here is why:
1. Cadillac motors of this vintage (368-425-472-500) never came with a manual transission. Consequently, they were never drilled for a pilot bearing. There is a person on the MTS web page that can help you with this, he makes custom pilot bearings, and has instructions on how to drill the crankshaft. This can be done without tearing down the motor to get the crankshaft out. His name is Caddycarlo, he has his own website.
2. For the same reason as above, there were never any manual flywheels built for this motor series. Custom flywheels are available through MTS, but current pricing is $350.
3. A cadillac motor requires a BUICK bellhousing to be able to bolt up a starter. Buick and cadillac have the starter on the passenger side of the motor, the same as chevy. Pontiac and Olds have the starter on the opposite (drivers) side of the motor. If you get a bellhousing from a pontiac or olds motor, make sure that it has the dual pattern for a starter on either side of the motor.
4. There are also two main types of input bearing diameters on the bellhousings available for this swap. Make sure to get the correct type for the transmission that you intend to run.

Vaughn and Jack, thanx for the clarification, I knew there was more than I was mentioning, my 1 and only swap was over 4 years ago. I new there was a part I was forgetting (oilpan) as well as the oil pick up unit inside the pan. got to go,thanx, RR

hey joe just because it has alot ofcubes dont mean its a big block the 500 are between a bigblock and smallblock in size and weighs in a little morethan a small block because of high nickel conetnt

Ric, Jack, Vaughn. Thanks for the in depth info. on the Cadd 500. All this will help cut down on the confusion level, and increase my chances of getting it right the first time..still gonna check into getting a standard behind one of those "bad boys", but I gotta get the motor first!If all goes well I'll be selling the built 350 that I have on the engine stand in the garage.I guess I just want something a bit differant at the local car shows on friday night.

Thanks a bunch guys for all the help, I'll try to keep you posted as I go....... "And probably ask more questions"

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Phillipians 4:13
"THINK SPRING"