The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1954 chevy 235 I6 engine valve adjustment

So, doing the third (and hopefully final) valve adjustment on my 1954 235 I6 (recently rebuilt, only has a few hours of run time, no miles yet), i have one final debate that i need to settle.
What are the proper Hot valve adjustment gaps? Ive done a valve adjustment two times-apparently wrong-and i dont want to have to do it a fourth time, so i need to make sure i get it perfect this time. granted perfection is impossible, but we can get darn close.
If you tried different adjustment settings that work better, feel free to tell me, i want to do it to proper spec, if anyone knows them. I will be adjusting it HOT after running for 30+ minutes, just to clear any possible confusion

Do you mean the actual lash setting? "Barely free when at maximum temperature" is correct for every engine with solid tappets.
Or the method used to make the adjustment with the smallest number of engine rotations? The entire "do these, then do those" routine only works if followed to the letter, a single mistake means start over again. Doing each valve separately (turn the engine until that valve is completely closed) means fewer choices = fewer chances of error.
How well do you know the 4-stroke combustion cycle?

i know the cycle fine, and how to do the valve adjustment, i was tired when i wrote that and used the wrong vocabulary.. what im asking for is the factory spec/correct Hot valve clearances. it has hydraulic lifters, so i dont have to worry about those.. ive adjusted the clearances 2 times already and ive aparently gotten them wrong, so when i go to do it for a third time, i need to know what the right clearances are for when the engine is hot.

hope that clears that cloud

in the shop manual it has two numbers, .006 and .008 (intake) and .013 and .015 (exhaust) and im confused on which one to set the valves to. it doesnt say any of the numbers are for hot setting... the manual is for 47-53 trucks but i have a 1954 engine, so thats also why im confused. the valve settings are for the 216 as well to be noted... currently my intake is set to .006 (hot) and my exhaust is set to .015 (hot) and it doesnt run right still...

I'll let an expert answer this.

"Ignorance can be fixed- - - - -Stupid is forever!" Hydraulic lifters run at ZERO clearance. The specifications you're quoting are for solid lifter camshafts. Find and follow the service manual instructions for adjusting hydraulics, or search the extensive information on hydraulic lifter adjustment already available here.
Jerry

Mr. Dane,

You should be looking in a 1954 Car Shop Manual for the procedure adjusting hydraulic lifters in Powerglide equipped cars.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm0612.html

i KNEW i was missing something! thank you for reminding me

its in a 1951 chevy 3100 1/2 ton with the original 3 speed, but ill take a look, it should work for mine..

should this be done when the engine is cold or hot? and theres no precise gap needed? this is most certainly new to me, the book makes sense, but wouldnt valves be held open?

put 2 and 2 together, ill go try it right now and see what we get. thanks for the help i appreciate it. is this a final setting or does it need work after this?

i tried to adjust it as the book suggusted, by turning it tight then 1 1/2 more turns but it only turns maybe 1/4 of the way before becoming incredibly tight. what am i doing wrong? (note: the engine has run before, it has a few hours of run on it)

so when it was tight i was just pushing the valve open and didnt notice. so i tried doing it again to what the book says and it holds the valve open. what am i missing? do i just tighten the rocker untill theres no more clearance? (based off hotrod lincolns comment)

Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE you have hydraulic lifters? My memory is not what it used to be but 1 1/2 turns extra seems excessive. Seems like contact plus 3/4 turn pops to mind. Could be wrong for your motor though.

i set everything, i just tightened the rocker untill it started opening the valve, then backed it off untill it just shut, then set it there. it runs 1000000000x better but now it sucks back through the exhaust (i did the dollar bill test) and it makes a popping noise near every rpm (this is it sucking back though)

so on to check my exhaust valves.

i checked all exhausts none of them are sticking shut or being held open, i remember it was doing this even before i had this adjustment, like when i had the valves set to solid lifter spec... so do i have a bad valve seat? is a valve itself bad? what might be my problem here?

im thinking perhaps some more run time will resolve this issue?

54 car motors came in two flavors. Motors that came with a stick shift got a block with solid lifters. Cannot retro fit hydraulics. If the motor came with a cast iron powerglide, that motor came with hydraulic lifters. Powerglide Motors can be retro fitted with solid lifters. Solid lifter motors can not be retro fitted with hydraulics. You must be absolutely certain what kind of lifters your motor has.

With solid lifters there is a bit of clearance that is necessary to take expansion of the parts as the motor heats up and for a margin of safety because there is no give with solid lifters. That is the clearance setting. You get this from the 54 shop manual


If your motor is a 54 car motor with hydraulic lifters, you need to read the 54 car shop manual for the procedure. There are other ways to adjust hydraulic lifters but the shop manual is the first place to start.

First- - - - -remove the side cover over the lifters and find out for certain whether or not they're hydraulic. A hydraulic lifter has two pieces, with the inner plunger that the pushrod contacts able to move down with a steady, constant pressure applied to it. Find a valve that's completely closed (distributor rotor pointing to the spark plug wire) and apply a steady, constant pressure to the rocker arm with a pry bar like you're trying to force the pushrod down into the lifter. If it's hydraulic, after a couple of minutes of steady pressure the gap between the rocker arm and the valve stem will be 1/8" or more due to the lifter collapsing. If the gap doesn't change, you do not have hydraulic lifters. Adjust them to the solid lifter clearance specifications.

To do the hydraulic lifter adjustment, point the distributor rotor to a plug wire, and loosen both rocker arm adjusters on that cylinder until there's visible slack between the rocker tip and the valve stem. Finger-tighten the adjuster until there's no slack, and tighten another 3/4-1 turn. Tighten the lock nut. Adjust both rockers that way. Move the distributor to the next spark plug wire and do the same thing. Ditto for the complete firing order. Wait a few minutes before starting the engine to allow the lifters to bleed down to the correct position.

Now the valves are adjusted- - - - -bolt the valve cover on and go tinker with something else!
Jerry

As several others have said, you need to be 100% certain that you have hydraulic lifters, and that the block is suitable for those (as Mike just said). What is the stamped number on the machined pad, just aft of the distributor, sort-of behind the dipstick? If it's there and it's a '54 block (you may have to wipe off some dirt and oil to see the stamped number), it should have a serial number ending in F54 with one or two more trailing digits. The final digits should ID if it was originally a standard transmission or powerglide block. If it's a standard block and not modified, fitted now with hydraulic lifters, that would be a problem.

Now, assuming you have hydraulic lifters and the block is OK for those for the moment, from what you stated a few posts back, the valves are probably still set too tight. Rather than adjusting from when the valve just closes, you need to adjust from when the rocker just reaches zero lash. You can do that as the manual states, carefully and one cylinder at a time, setting each cylinder at the top of it's compression stroke, loosening the adjusters for that cylinder's valves, feeling the push rods for side play, and tightening back to remove the side play. When tightened back to the point where the play is just gone, that is the point of zero lash. Although the service manual says tighten an additional 1-1/2 turns, that assumes the lifter internal piston is free to move, and is at the top of its travel. There was a late '50's Chevy instruction that suggested only tightening 3/4 turn from point of "felt" zero lash. You may wish to try that - after you confirm that you have hydraulic lifters.

But one thing still bothers me. A couple threads back you had a sticking lifter or valve. Although you reported you freed that lifter/valve, the fact that you were running the engine with a stuck valve or lifter makes me wonder if either valve or pushrod is bent. Something had to give from what you reported, and I never saw that answered in the earlier thread. If it were my truck, I would to do a compression test on the engine, since there are continued problems. You may find you have a problem with valve sealing in that cylinder.

ok they are solid because theyre one piece with a "plunger" head on the top and a flat bottom and a solid body.. so i did the adjustment right the first time... and either way it still sucked back, so the guy who did the head resurfacing didnt do a valve seat right. thats just great. well thanks everyone for the help.

Just for giggles, how about posting a photo of the top of your lifter.

id rather not tear off my knuckle trying to remove that side cover again lol... anyway heres a picture i found... i thought they were hydraulic lifters though... [img]https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/c...5d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/3/83216_1.875.jpg[/img]

the pushrod isnt bent, the lifters werent pre oiled, so it just bounced around for the first few minutes of run time before i solved the problem. the valve itself wasnt stuck, i think the lifter got frozen at the top position, therefore the cam probably didnt even touch it at all

having never adjusted valves with hydraulic lifters before, not much of this makes sense, im not a valve wizard by any means either, but i have a local friend with a truck with the exact same engine, ill have him come over and assist with it, hes done it at least 10 times... (hes had his truck for a good 20 years)

OK, but either way - bent or not - if you are thinking you don't have a valve sealing correctly, a compression test will isolate which cylinder(s) have a problem.


The photo you posted in answer to Mike's question confuses me. Those are Ford hydraulic lifters in the photo. If your lifters have a moveable center plunger as those do, and a hole into the center clearance area of the lifter body, they are hydraulic lifters. If there is no moveable center plunger then they are solid lifters. Make sense? Which do you have in your engine?

theyre hydraulic, yes they look similar, again i have no need to remove the side cover again, they have a movable plunger in the middle, i was just trying to find a reference picture. So then yes i indeed have hydraulic lifters, and i still dont know how to set them (which is fine, i have the local friend)

it was modified when it was rebuilt, im not sure what the man did, all i know is it for sure has hydraulic lifters. i tried doing what the book said but it was visibly holding valves open. i tried to start it and it just spun like it had no compression. so i loosened them again and hand tightened them untill there was no play, and tightened down the lock nut. ill do a compression test tomorrow.. one of the cylinders when i did it before had a reading of 120 i believe whereas all the others were getting 130-135.. ill do it again and provide an update.

If the valves are adjusted fairly loose, you can probably get a good compression check. If they aren't, you may get low readings. Here's the hydraulic setting procedure I posted earlier, once again.

"You can do that as the manual states, carefully and one cylinder at a time, setting each cylinder at the top of it's compression stroke, loosening the adjusters for that cylinder's valves, feeling the push rods for side play, and tightening back to remove the side play. When tightened back to the point where the play is just gone, that is the point of zero lash. Although the service manual says tighten an additional 1-1/2 turns, that assumes the lifter internal piston is free to move, and is at the top of its travel. There was a late '50's Chevy instruction that suggested only tightening 3/4 turn from point of "felt" zero lash. You may wish to try that - after you confirm that you have hydraulic lifters."

This follows the factory manual. I do suggest only tightening 1/2 to 3/4 turn from first point of zero lash. Run the engine for a bit, then reset. Jerry posted a very similar set of instructions on adjusting hydraulic lifters, which you may find more succinct than mine.

Hope this helps.

ive already tried this and it wouldnt fire over or start, and it was back puffing through the carb.. badly. i stopped before, fire.. like i said, ill have our friend come over and assist.. this still doesnt help the fact that an exhaust valve wont shut... anyway, thats all for tonight... tomorrow i will experiment greatly and do some trial and error, and hopefully nothing blows up. i have faith, though

How are you sure the engine has oil pressure to the tappet gallery? No pressure means that any lifter is solid.

Mr Dane, see the lifters in the photo, they look like they have plungers. They don’t, they are solid lifters. Hydraulics and solids look nearly identical. In the photo you posted you can see a little wire clip on the top of the lifter. Do your lifters have that little clip? Also, any chance you can see the distributor pad and the stamping that might be on the pad? The standings might also help sort out the block.

I'm tired of being ignored- - - -you guys can continue this fruitless pursuit on your own. The best thing about beating one's head against a wall is that it feels so good when you stop!
Jerry

im not ignoring you,l i just have no clue how to preform what you described, it makes no sense, because a valve is held open if adjusted by the manual, and it turns over like it has no compression.. which it doesnt.. ill just locate the valve that might have a bad seat and, hell i dont know what to do.. maybe twist the valve back and fourth to wear the seat to fit?

yes, they are hydraulic. yes they have the little metal clip on them. the point here is i don't know how to do what the manual says, because its wrong. the valves are held open if its turned 3/4 of the way and the engine turns over like theres no pistons in it. ive already tried it, so now as it sits, its adjusted right untill the valvetrain has no play. HOWEVER the back sucking was occurring BEFORE i ever did this adjustment, and had every valve gaped to solid lifter spec. my goal here is to fix a valve seat not set my valves.. ive got that done, hopefully anyway because im never taking that valve cover back off...

i dont know. all i know is that it drips down from the rocker assembly, which has plenty of pressure, it pours nicely at higher rpms.

The best option now is to find someone who knows what he's doing and pay him to make it right. You're in way over your head on this one.
Jerry

There comes a time when a person has to admit they are in over their head, “I just have no clue how to perform what you described “ and seek the help of a qualified mechanic face to face. You say the manual is “wrong”. The point is, you are wrong and working beyond your capabilities. You posted that you had a friend that could come over and help. For your sake I hope your friend is a serious mechanic with a skill set that will help you get your truck on the road again. This post is not meant to belittle your past attempts at doing the job because I know you really tried hard. But you must understand how frustrating all this is for the guys on here that know what they are doing and are legitimately trying to help you out. It’s time to let this thread rest until you come back with an update on what it took to fix the problem. Good luck.🛠

To all: ive officially given up. its staying the way it is, if it blows up after 100 miles so what... i dont really care anymore, im never messing with it again. no further commentary is required.