The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Panels 'N Burbs Panel Truck Seat Belt Anchoring Location?

Seat belt anchoring locations seem limited in a panel/Suburban: skimpy sheet metal seat base or maybe back to the wood bed floor? What have you guys done successfully?

Suburban rear seats: wrapped/attached the seat belt straps around the bottom seat frame tube.

I have not yet tried to kludge a seat belt attachment location for the Suburban front passengers. I'll probably drill through the floor and use a floor mount for driver and middle front passenger?

I doubt that a practical/safe seat-belt configuration can be found for the jump seat?

If I had a panel truck, I'd use sturdy floor mounts.
Maybe someone has installed shoulder strap/belt for the Panel driver?
A Panel passenger seat belt would be a little more difficult?

As my signature shows, I have a panel so I'm only concerned about front seats. There really is no "floor" - just the sheet metal riser that's mostly inaccessible for anchors from underneath. I could route belts back to the wood cargo floor, but would that be stronger or weaker?

Panel seats are way different than Suburban seats, but anyway:
I did put shoulder and lap belts in a TF suburban years ago. You have to find places under the floor near structure and use fairly large, think plates supported by structure. The frame would be the ultimate structure.
The shoulder tie point should be about eye high and you will have to drill a hole in the sheet metal and fish a plate with a threaded hole in behind. I think I cut a slit at the door jamb or at the suburban side window. Be creative and stealthy.


Attaching belts to the seats of old trucks is a bad idea. The seats will rip loose from the thin floor upon impact. If you do what I did and the seat rips loose but the belt stays attached to the reinforces floor, you may get choked or have internal trauma. Also, many truck seat backs do not lock, so potential for injury there. I am familiar with mechanical design. Who knows if my effort will help or hurt. You can actually cause more injury or get trapped.

The jump seats on panels and suburban's are double fold. Do I have to say anything about that? Even the floor supports under the cab are basically sheet metal formed shapes.

The final analysis is that most kits sold by vendors are not designed properly as far as the anchors are concerned. Big washers won't hold 30 G's at 30MPH on a 170 lb person. 2.55 tons force. The higher speeds are gigantic G loads on your body. All points, including the seat hardware must withstand pull out, rip out, strip out. These vendors have no real data. They have probably tested their hardware but not as mounted to .xxx think floor or pillar of every vehicle covered by their product. If you install seatbelts, keep the anchors big, thick and supported. Be advised that the seat itself is dangerous in many ways. It all has to be strengthened. That is not mentioned by the sellers. They sell iffy backing plates for the belt tie points, not for the seats. They have disclaimers in their verbiage.

Something may be better than nothing or it may be nothing.

I just looked through all the panels and Subs on Ebay to get ideas for anchoring belts, probably 12 or so - wow, not one of them had any seat belts. I'm sensing a trend here...

I went through the wood floor behind the front seats. Lap belts only. Underneath the wood floor got some 4" x 6" x 1/4" plate that the anchor bolts went through. I figure the belts are more peace-of-mind than anything else.

Thanks. Since panels and Subs lack the metal floor behind the seat riser that pickups have, I'm thinking that going through the wood may be the best option.

If you go through the wood on the two rear Suburban seats, you will not be able to easily remove the seats and have a clean/clear rear floor. This might not be much of a problem - most of us do not remove those seats very often.

My technique, described above, allows the belts to be removed whenever the seat frames are removed.

Tim, that's the way I'm going on my middle and rear seat. Heck, that's the way they do it on dragsters!

A nice clean anchor system that would allow removal of the seat belt anchors would be to fab up a steel anchor plate held to the bottom of the wood floor with screws and with a threaded hole for an eyebolt screwed in from the top. Then if you wanted to remove them, just unscrew the eyebolt from the anchor plate.

OK boys. I gotta say in all honesty and right-eousness:

Technically, strength and max safety says:
1. Tying to seats is no-no.
2. Tying to wood, in any way, is no-no.
3. Piece of mind is correct.
4. If you read the G's, you can't argue

Your kids and your family are not safe in an old truck. Just drive safely. If you use them as a daily driver, you are at way higher risk than a newer truck. But we do it all the time. The whole truck and it's restraint system has to be designed and engineered for safety belts. Our trucks are not.

Neither are:
Motorcycles
Horses
Skiing
ATV's
Boats
Running
Tractors
Water Park Slides
Rafting
Football
Military Combat

I have to agree with bartamos. My suggestion was just for convenience of removing seat belt anchors. Wood isn't that strong, but a steel plate below helps spread the load a bit and MAY make the belts stay in place, if God forbid, something beyond a bumper tap does happen.

There are substantial steel washers under the plywood floor for each of the Suburban rear seat frame bolts.

The better the washer, the more wood it will rip out. The more sheet metal floor it will rip out. Think tons, not pounds. 10-20+ G's, inertia. The washer won't yield. The plates won't yield. The floor with rip right out. I know that attaching the belts to the frame is the way to do the belts but I am NOT recommending that either due to seat mounting not designed for crash. I don't think I'm getting through to the piece of mind thinkers. If the floor was cardboard, would a thick washer help anything? If you attach belts to the frame and seat comes loose, what would happen? I just want people to know that what they think they are doing is not.

I've said something may be better than nothing or it may be nothing. It takes a crash to find out. I did a project with my grandson so he could drive a cool old truck to school. Had a bad dream. Made him buy a newer truck with seatbelts, air bags and antilock. Still had fun building with him. I could not stick a new driver into an unsafe truck and live with it.

i agree with bartamos,
any seat belt we think we will install in an old truck may end up doing harm and it might lead you into a false sense of safety
why not leave the home made seat belt out as a constant reminder to the occupants not to get fancy with the driving
be safe and defensive

for a good read, the minimum standard the law requires for seatbelts can be found here:
https://www.ecfr.gov/

go to Title 49 → Subtitle B → Chapter V → Part 571 → Subpart B → §571.209

Title 49: Transportation
PART 571–FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS
Subpart B–Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards
§571.209   Standard No. 209; Seat belt assemblies.

-s

So, since I'm the only one who used this term in this discussion, I have to assume you are referring to me. So let's discuss.

1) Bartamos, I always hear what you say and I always understand what you say. If I didn't, I would ask you. We may not always agree on the method, but we always seem to be heading to the same finish line.
2) In my daily job, there isn't much I can do, modification wise, without having a discussion with our department engineers. They are the people on top of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, OSHA regulations, California compliance and whatever else guides us to keep a safe and compliant fleet. I have to or our users don't get to go home to their families every night or someone out in public won't either.
3) I have been working on this fleet for 35 years. I understand what it takes to have a safe or unsafe vehicle. I'm just about regulated by law to do that on a daily basis. Let's call that DVIR fun and BIT regulated vehicles!
4) Our fleet can be the most modern at times. We have vehicles that most people will never see. Which reminds me. Never buy a vehicle from Azure Dynamics or from VIA. You probably can't anyway because I think they both went out of business.

I believe you misunderstood what I meant by "peace of mind" since I didn't put much explanation behind it. What I meant by that, as it refers to me, is that I grew up in an era where seat belts weren't required. Then, one day, wearing seat belts became law. You can still see the slogan on signs here and there that say "Click it, or ticket." I also understand the concept of being grandfathered. My truck doesn't require seat belts. Knowing this, in my mind, the seat belts are just for looks. Maybe a psychological credit from the police if I ever get pulled over. They really aren't going to do much to save my life. Especially after the steering wheel cuts in to my gut and I bang my head against the ever so close windshield. There is just not a whole lot of soft up there. No ribs in the doors, and a plywood floor behind me with seats attached by keyhole plates trying to pass through me to exit the windshield area. Yeah, not pretty.

As for my children, all they have ever known, have been restraints or seat belts. With them, the world feels wrong if they don't have some kind of restraint. It is for their "peace of mind" that I put seat belts in my truck. I will still explain to them that the seat belts in my truck aren't the ultimate in protection, if at all. It is still on me to explain why I have a greater, than what most people do, following distance. It is my responsibility to explain why modern vehicles are much safer than my old truck. How the rules of safety are written in blood. To drive as defensively as possible. To know that a hot rod is exactly that, a hot rod. That old vehicles days of glory are in the past for a reason.


You got through, you always do. I was just talking about something different.

Well said. I did use that phrase. I was not using it at you. It is what was on my mind from the beginning as to why everyone seemed happy with their seat belt methods. Was trying to explain none of the methods would solve the "worry". Piece of mind. A common phrase. I see what you thought. I did not think of that.
I get that people do things for piece of mind. I do that too. In this case, I wanted to point out that if that makes you put it "out of your mind" and move on, to consider XYZ facts. I hated to say that folks could be causing more injury, but that is also possible. I don't have a positive thing to say about it. Engineers are trained to be doubtful and pessimistic when it comes to examining a safety issue and it's proposed remedy. I still have that form of PTSD from the aerospace business. I wish I had a more calm and understanding attitude like you. I try not to be as "spicy" as a few others but I think I'm in that bunch. I was getting all into the life and death of it as opposed to all the other neat stuff we talk about.
Now Tim is going to shun me for the washer/cardboard analogy. I can't dispel an idea without explanation. That would be too spicy. Just trying to explain the depth of structural strength necessary for seat belts and seats. An opinion for sure.

No shunning from me, bartamos

Something is better than nothing.

And, nothing, within reasonable (to me) efforts, would be as good as a properly designed-to-modern standards restraint and airbag system.