The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Need advise on new engine

I have a 57 3200 I recently bought with a 350 and a 700R4 (its a bit of a resto mod). Its had issues with loosing power under acceleration and up grades since I got it, and today I worked on it some more, and realized its done. Developed a loud knock and I see white smoke out the tailpipes. So I'm looking at options. I very capable of working on things, but its my first time dealing with this. Obviously the head gaskets are done, but I also assume there could be more damage.
So here are my questions;

1. will any 350 bolt in ok? If not, what do I need to look for?
2. I have a 700R4 and the seller mentioned it was a 4 bolt? So if that something I need to look for?
3. Should I just look at a top end rebuild to replace the head gaskets on the engine I have?

I see a used long block for as cheap as $800 for sale. The guy is putting in a bigger engine, already has it out but has vids of it running. Says its from a TH350 and 6 bolt? Good deal, and will it work?

I also see many rebuilt short blocks (with heads) for $1300 with warranty.

Thanks in advance for the help.

It should be a pretty much bolt in for any 350. You already have all the parts.

ok thanks. I'm new at this so my questions may be obvious to many. Im just trying to make sure I don't end up throwing money at money with add on costs and head aches. Mostly Ive never dealt with an auto transmission before. If the engine mounts are the same, and it'll bolt to the transmission - then it sounds simple enough. Lots of room in the engine department and easy wiring.

Can I pull just the engine, or is it best to pull the engine and transmission out and bolt them together that way?

It will be way easier for a novice mechanic to just switch out the engine and support the transmission in place. JMO

1. yes
2. He was talking about the motor not the trans. A 4 bolt main bearing cap. You can use any 350. Every seller says their motor is a 4 bolt. Most are 2 bolt. No problem with 2 bolt
3. No

The 350's are cheap. Buy one in a running vehicle so you know it's good. $400-$600. Don't fall for all the guys who say it's been rebuilt. Sometimes that's a bad thing because they didn't know what the hell they were doing. Check it's oil, do a compression test on it and listen to it run with a muffler.
Keep your old 350 for all it's parts, brackets, etc. This will be a bolt in solution. Work on the old 350 at your leisure, and if lucky, you will learn something, fix it and sell it for what you paid for the replacement. Don't spend too much on it. $100 max.

Thanks bartamos.

As always, I was still editing. Sorry. Read again in case. Get a carburetor motor. No computer stuff. Be patient, keep looking at Craigslist every day.

Portland area.
https://portland.craigslist.org/grg/pts/d/lincoln-city-57l-v8-350-complete-motor/6833770246.html

If you don't know much about mechanics and motors, maybe there is nothing bad wrong. Always have to be sure. Check the oil to see if it is milky or brown or too full. If it's normal then maybe you don't have a bad gasket. Check the "knock" with a stethoscope or broom handle to identify where it is coming from. Some "knocks" are just the exhaust manifold leaking or timing/spark knock.

Steamy white smoke can be just condensation because of humidity right now. Thick smoke that does not go away after warm up is maybe gasket leak.

I know some about motors - but mostly vw aircooled. The knock is pretty loud and started up after it was out for a run and warned up. I noticed the water still dripping from the tail pipes. Didn't smell of coolant, but kept coming well after it should have stoped in my opinion. Then I revved the engine and watched and saw some white smoke. Nothing that would blind a car behind, but enough to recognize its not just condensation. I did use a screwdriver as a stethoscope, but couldn't pinpoint the noise. I do need to check the oil today and look for milky water.

Lastly, I looked at the casting # and this engine is a good wrench 1986 and up. One I see for sale is a 1972 block - rebuilt a while ago, but running. I'm guessing no big harm in an older block if its good, or any differences? The link you sent is also a good example.

Well I hate to throw another wrench into this but many folks, including me, would love to have any Chevy V8 Built in 1972 or earlier. These are the motors with the most HP per their cu in. Anti smog/pollution requirements started in 1973. Motors were "redesigned" and loss HP over night. If the 350 is actually a 1972, by looking at casting numbers and the serial code (application code) stamped on the head pad in front of and below passenger valve cover, that would be a nice motor to have.

A screw driver won't get it as you have discovered. Use a long wooden dowel or an extension handle from a paint roller or other household handle. Place one end all around the motor and the other end cupped to your ear. Touching your ear.

Hard to say about your motor. Seems like you said it does not knock right away, but after warm up. After parts expand possibly. Also the knock may be a separate issue than the smoke. Not sure. When did you notice each issue? Was motor OK for awhile, weeks, months, then not OK? You say you "worked on it some more" then it developed the knock and smoke? Can you clarify that?

If you have an 86 up engine, some components do not cross over to the earlier engines. The 86 up engines have a 1 piece rear seal and use a different bolt pattern on the crank shaft. Subsequently the flex plate mounting will be different. Also there are some differences in the cylinder head to intake mounting. It's difficult to say what you have as many engines get mixed and matched. As you stated you don't want to purchase a bunch of stuff that won't interchange.
Fred

here is the story of the past issues (sorry its long). I bought the truck a couple months ago, as is, and later found it had some power issues. It bogged down under harder acceleration and under load up hills. When I say bogged down, I mean it literally lost power and limps until the load went off and then slowly recovered as the load decreased, although i'd limp it back home. I didn't see the tach rev, so its not a tranny slipping. Have been slowly fixing small things here and there, rebuilt the carb, and then put new plugs, wires, fuse line and filter, and tuned it up. I also noticed the oil pressure would be at 50 on start up, but as I drove it, it seemed to drop right off when I stopped at traffic lights - almost down to zero. It would come to 25 - 35 easily as soon as I started to drive. But obviously I noted it dropped oil pressure after start up. It didn't burn oil. It has a 700R4 so I spent some time ensuring the TV cable was adjusted and shifting correctly (put a new, better aligned bracket for it on) to eliminate the transmission. In any case, after the new bracket and TV cable adjustment I took it for a test drive yesterday down a quiet road - about 25 minutes worth after it already warmed up in the driveway, Tranny shifts good now. Tried again to accelerate and it seems good, then started to stumble, although it did get to 60 mph before it did it. Seemed like good acceleration to that point too. Headed for home and it really started to loose power up a small incline in the road (going about 25mph at that time as its got some sharp bends). So I parked in the driveway and checked the tuning again (no knocking then but perhaps a little more noise on drivers side) and revved it to 2500 - 3000 in the driveway to check advance. All good - turned engine off and then tightened distributor bolt, started it back up - and it started the loud knock. Also still saw the moisture on the ground behind the exhaust, so revved it and I see some whitish smoke. It should have been good and warm at this time.
I'd thought the loss of power was a fuel delivery issue or running lean. Ive pulled those out and my suspicion of a worn engine was confirmed in my mind with the knock and the white smoke, and the unsteady oil pressure . I know there are lots of variables, so let me know your thoughts.

ok. Its the flex plate, or engine to tranny, I'm most concerned with, due to my lack of knowledge. If I find a complete engine to put in (as in pulled from another vehicle and turn key) - all the rest is somewhat ok. I'm sure there are all sorts of conversion plates if the engine to tranny is different, but the time and knowledge to get that right could cause me issues. Need to make sure it bolts up to my current 700R4 easily. Also power steering pump etc. I'll happily take it on, but want to make sure it becomes a solid weekend job (plus a extra days as needed finishing it and tidying things up, but don't want to get stuck and have it sit for months (I do have a full time job).

Your over thinking this. It’s a simple weekend job. Familiarize yourself with 350 identifying numbers and don’t buy a 86 up motor. Easy as that. You got this. Don’t listen to the negative nellies, they will keep putting doubts in your head. 🛠

Fred is right about 86 and up. You don't care about internal parts, you may care about external accessories. Don't get all confused.
The tranny will fit most any motor. The 700r4 has two input spline counts. The correct torque converter will solve any issues there. There is a change in crankshaft bolt pattern.
1. The bolt up should not big a big problem, just the correct flywheel/torque converter.
2. You have an 86 and up. If you buy another, it's not an issue. If you by 85 and down, small issue. BUT, investigate and know about splines and bolt patterns.
3. If you buy 85 and down motor and it includes all the accessories, you don't care if accessories are compatible.
4. You didn't say if the oil was OK.
5. Check the 85 and down for same motor mount pattern on block as the motor you have now.

Bogging down can be FUEL DELIVERY.
1. Fuel pump
2. Gas cap not venting. Leave it off on next drive.
3. Floating garbage in fuel tank, carb, lines...hills make it move around and block.
4. Carb float level and float drop.
5. Carb (needle valve and everything else)
6. Timing screwed up
7. The hint would be that it runs good and then not, that's 1 thru 6.

Bogging 2.0
8. Old gas with water in it
9. Vacuum leak
10. Timing chain
11. Bad dizzy, (vac advance, gear, mechanicals)
12. Keep collecting info here on Stovebolt and the net.

OK kiwinz, I'm going to confuse you even more. If you were near me I would sell you a 383 that I built for my Vette, I was going to swap it for the original 350 but lost interest in the car. I have also thought about swapping it for the original 283 in my '57 but I love the originality of the two ton. I'm just saying you have a world of options with the Chevy V8's so don't make a rash decision, lots of help here waiting to assist you, good luck and keep asking questions.

BTW: are you a Kiwi from NZ?

IF your existing motor has chicken leg front motor mounts you need to make sure the replacement V8 was drilled and tapped (two bolt holes down low on either side of the timing cover) to except the motor mount brackets. I think Chevrolet stopped drilling these bolt hole in the 70's.

Mike B

Thanks for all the responses and the help guy's. I'm going to need to learn how to post photos on here soon. A picture paints a thousand words....

@78buckshot - if only I had time for a road trip, I'd come get that motor

@ bartamas - yep, I'm from NZ. I got into VW's while traveling around the US, and have worked on them a lot. Somehow I got into older US cars (never grew up with these) and have a 65 Mustang which Ive been learning a lot (https://www.vintage-mustang.com is awesome and thats where I learnt about stovebolt.com!), then I wanted a truck and loved the 50's look so here I am with the 57 3200. I actually wanted a long bed so I can use it to carry stuff. Ive done lots of things and now have a lot of tools and know how, but Ive only ever pulled a VW engine and rebuilt it. They are quite different!

@Martin. Exactly - thats what I needed to hear. Most things are 80% procrastination and 20% jump in and just get it done.

over all, I'll ask some really stupid and perhaps dumb questions, but Ive learnt to make sure I take advise when its available - especially if I'm doing something for the first time. I work for myself in a more than full time business in sales, but as a kiwi I'm a do it yourselfer. Im not at the point where I can just pay someone to do something for me - nor would I like to to, The reward is too great. So I'm about to do my first V8 engine swap - soon.....

Thanks Bartamos, I put responses above in the quote.

To “Test” the fuel pump, remove the output line. Put a can or bucket down and crank the engine over. Make sure the discharging gas doesn’t get anywhere near a spark. You should after 5 seconds of cranking have plenty of gas in the bucket to fill the float bowl on the carb. I’m not saying it’s the pump just offering a simple way to test the pump.🛠

Just get a new fuel pump. East to install and cheap to buy. Gotta do that next, ASAP. You can test as Martin says if you wish. In your case I would buy new.

bargabos - you were right! And thanks to all of you for the suggestions, and I know a few others thought it was the fuel pump too. Its wha I love the forums and the support and knowledge they offer.

So many issues threw me a curve ball, likely unrelated. So today I put on a new fuel pump. I'm glad I checked the rod also, as it was stuck in there with only slight movement but all the way back. I searched for advice and saw a few online have had this issue too. Thought I'd never get it out, but some very tight vise grips and a large crow bar for leverage finally broke it loose. I spent some time with the new rod (slightly longer too) oiling and cleaning to ensure it slipped in and out easily - took a while. Put the new pump on, made a new gasket and used some RTV and made sure it as sealed. Honestly the bolts seemed a little loose when I removed the original, so this one is on solid. Went for a test drive and its got more power than before and did not bog down once! Very happy.

The other, possibly unrelated issues; Low oil pressure. Could be a bad sender, or just how it is. The gauge has marks for 0 - 25 - 50 - 75 etc, so the distance between 0 - 25 is pretty small. I feel it goes super low and looks close to zero once its warm and at idle, but perhaps its still 5ish at idle. In any case I'll put a new sender and a new higher volume oil pump on next for reassurance. I did do a compression test before switching the fuel pump, and its between 165 - 170 in all cylinders! I did it cold, and didn't bother with a wet test, just happy to see they were all close. I'm not burning any oil, no bubbles in radiator. I still head the knock and lots of water came out the tailpipes. But with warmer weather and ran it a lot (and now actually had the real power and no hesitation - so its seems like its ok. Temp sitting at idle in the driveway for a while went to 200, but it seems happier and mostly stays close to the 180. I also have a 700R and spent a lot of time sorting out the shifting. Finally just went and bought the entire new bracket and cable and make it right. So with the bad fuel pump and bad shifting, and a little stress with finding quiet roads for tests - it was harder for me to work out what was going wrong.

I like to follow up once Ive found the solution or fixed the issue. I spend a lot of time searching the forums for help and hate it when I find someone with the same problem, and then after all the posts with options, the OP never comes back with the finale. So for me, it was mostly the fuel pump. It looked like it was new enough and clean, seemed to operate with the spring fine, and the rod I removed seemed straight, but replacing it all did the trick. Glad to have some summer cruising time and having a truck for some yard work in the future.

Like you, I appreciate the update, that is a big part of the learning curve. Thank you, have fun with it.

What type of front motor mounts does the engine have? If it's got the two brackets for the "bird leg" mounts beside the timing cover, you need to be aware that the top bolt hole on the fuel pump side intersects the hole for the pump pushrod. A too-long bolt in that hole will cause the tight pushrod situation you encountered, as well as damaging the pushrod. That hole was placed there intentionally, BTW, as you can install a long bolt during a fuel pump change to prevent the pushrod from slipping out and getting jammed against the adapter plate. Just remember to replace it with a short bolt afterwards. Later model engines with side mounts had a very short bolt installed in that hole to prevent a seep oil leak.

While you've got the oil pan down replacing the oil pump, you should probably fix the real oil pressure problem- - - -replace the worn connecting rod bearings. Putting a high-volume oil pump in is like giving a brain tumor patient an aspirin for his headache- - - -treating the symptom, not the cause of the problem. You can't change the cam bearings under a shade tree, which also contribute to oil pressure loss, but rod and possibly main bearings can be swapped without a lot of effort.
Jerry

I had heard about this bolt, looked and couldn't quite work it out. I'll have to find a photo to understand what I need to check.

So it does not seem I have any bolts in those holes. not apparent oil leak either? Is it possible they are not tapped all the way though on my block (approx 1987 block). Its an awkward angle to see now that the pup is back on and the fuel line goes in front, but there are no bolts and I inserted something in the hole and it seemed to go in a little way and then tap out in both holes. Also used the phone for some photo attempts and I see the holes do have thread in them - no visible bolt inserted