This is a 12v 235. I've got an issue with the battery draining after a few days. I've been using my Battery Tender to keep it up. Finally got around to investigating today. I don't notice any other electrical issues except for this. The entire electrical system is new including the AC Delco reman alternator for 1998-2001 Geo Metro. Got this from Rock Auto. I did modify the socket plug to use a jumper to the big lug. With the meter in series from the + bat lug to the disconnected + bat cable, I get .28A. If I disconnect the jumper between socket and lug it goes to zero. Any way to tell if it is the rectifier or maybe I screwed up something modifying the socket to add that jumper?
What’s the chance of connecting the jumper to the socket to a switched hot wire instead of ‘always hot’ battery voltage. A bad rectifier pack will show a drain with the jumper unplugged since it’s leaking through one or more of the diodes in the pack.
A 280 milliamp parasitic drain is WAAAAYYYYY too much. You need to put that voltage monitor wire on a switched circuit.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Gord - does look like that but the one and that is the 2nd in my link. I have the 1st one (or suppose to anyway). I replaced the pulley with a slotted one.
Beltfed - seems like that might work but don't want to run any other wires. It's too pretty under there now.
We don't know what you did to the alt. Sounds like you are trying to do a "one wire" install. All you have told us is that you modified a "socket plug" to add a jumper. If you would be more specific and be exact, we could possible tell you if you did it right. That's if we know what you are doing. Does socket plug mean a female connector that you plug into the alternator male blades? If you have a drain, how did you know you had a drain? Does the motor not start after sitting? or did you notice something else. There are many ways to have a drain. A battery drain "after a few days" can be a bad battery or a component that is supposed to be off when ignition is off, but is not. We don't know all you have done with wiring and other component replacement. Was everything OK before new alternator? Why did you buy a new alternator? Lots of info and history left out here. Maybe you have installed a CD, bluetooth or a IPhone charger with a "on" light that is draining. Maybe some other "modern" gadget with a indicator light drain. Maybe you miswired something.
What does volt meter say across battery after sitting over night? What does the volt meter say across battery while motor is running? Take off the trickle charger and leave it off until you figure this out. Why did you choose a Suzuki GM alternator? Why not a normal 10Si from O'Reilly's that you could take back down the street. NEVER order a part like that from RA or any vendor and have it shipped. They are all over the place in every town. If you find out it is faulty and can prove it, then you have to ship it back, wait for approval and may pay a restock charge.
Bottom line is you are off on a electronic trouble shooting mission with no professional equipment. You are talking rectifiers and don't even know if you "modified" it correctly. You are playing with a new part. If RA finds out that you messed with the hookup, you and the alternator are toast.
Just give us the info as to how you hooked it up and what is wrong that causes you to ask about rectifiers(diodes). We have no idea what to say until you do that. Everyone is starting to get sucked into an electronics discussion. If the alt puts out proper voltage/amperage and it keeps the battery up, then it's good.
It's pretty simple to find a drain, if that is what is happening, by isolating various components overnight. One at a time. (Like: disconnect the alternator overnight.) That's if you first prove, and state, that your battering goes down overnight as truck is presently wired.
You can get into a testing marathon about milliamps and etc. if you want. I am trying get you to start by being more basic, go over what you have done, no reason to rush to the alternator that I know of. Others will have great, simple ideas, once they know the symptoms/complaint. Don't influence us with your theories and tests. All you know is the battery goes down in a few days. Take the cables off the battery, charge it to 12.6+ and let it sit a "few days" and recheck. That is the first step. After that, get battery tested at a FLAPS for a double check. Then no sweat, we will help.
Commentary, not aimed at anyone: Many of us are guilty of these issues. What really bugs me is people, who are just normal truck owners with some mechanic abilities, want to start digging into the internal electronics of a component like an alternator. They either charge or they don't. If they are correct for the internal or external resisted system emlpoyed. They are throw away/core components. A standard 63A 10si is cheap. AC/Delco reman $35-$50. You don't buy an odd ball application, Suzuki/Mitsubishi high dollar, low amp alternator, online. You don't modify or do a "one wire" unless you know what you are doing. You don't need to know it's inner electronic operation and the theory behind it.. You can't perform a discrete component/integrated circuit/specific component test and failure analysis. If you want to know just because you are curious, read about it later after you fix your problem. But first read on how to properly do a "modification" to "one wire".
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I understand what you're saying Bartamos. You've given me several things to do so I'll take it from here and let you guys know what I find out. The reason I selected this alternator over the 10si is strictly for size. I've got a A/C compressor under it and needed the room and, to my eyes, the smaller size looks better.
Just another thought. Depending on the pulley ratio and together with the way you wired for "one wire", can cause low output from the alternator. It would need higher RPM's to keep a gadget loaded truck battery charged and longer run cycles than just down the street and back or idling in the driveway. thanks for letting us know the results Dennis. A 40 Truck is really neat.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I suspect you have it wired wrong. In the link in my first post, the guy shows the field wire to the battery switched, so you cannot just jump #2 to the battery wire at the alternator like you can do with a Delco 10si.
I understand why you chose the more compact Denso. I'm keen to hear how it works out for you.
Gord, isn't "switched live" a battery hot? Same as hooking to any batt wire. Like straight to battery post on alt. The guy in the link is hooking up a bulb to #1 for the exiter. But as soon as the ignition switch is on, #2 has connection to battery. Is he saying that if #2 is not switched "off" it will drain the battery? Why? This fellow is confusing the issue. It does not matter if #2 is switched hot or permanent hot. The #2 to Alt hot post is much simpler. I am speaking about GM 10SI. I am assuming that #1 and #2 have the same function as a 10SI. If a Geo has some goofy alternator, all bets are off. I don't have a 1998-2001 Geo wiring diagram to check alternator hook up.
This era Geo has an ECM. Don't know if that effects wiring, alternator operation or anything were are discussing.
Dennis has not said he is trying to do a "one wire" or just wire alternator "normally". Don't know what dash meters he has or if he has a regulator and what coil.
"With the meter in series from the + bat lug to the disconnected + bat cable, I get .28A." I do not know what components and what lugs are in this test. I think it's between the alternator battery post to a disconnected positive battery cable end. Don't know if 1/4 of an amp is just static electricity in the air, or current flow or what. "In series" could mean running 12V thru the meter set on Amps? Depending on what he actually did. I guess others are saying it shows a draw where there should be none.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
From what I'm reading here, my issue is that I can't just jumper #2 to Bat post. I moved a couple months ago and much of my stuff is still boxed as we are moving again next year. So still looking for my drawings as to how it is wired. Don't want to undo more than is needed because I have it all nice and tidy. I get the draw only when the #2 to post is connected. I have a volt meter installed instead of amp meter. I made my test in series at the battery to the disconnected cable. The multimeter was set to measure current draw. The alternator is internally regulated. The coil is has internal ballast. I know now that isn't the best for starting and will probably change some day but works OK for me at the moment.
I am speaking about GM 10SI. I am assuming that #1 and #2 have the same function as a 10SI. If a Geo has some goofy alternator, all bets are off. I don't have a 1998-2001 Geo wiring diagram to check alternator hook up.
From what Dennis said and what I have read, I'm sure that the Dennis has the Denso alternator, not the Delco SI. This makes sense since the Geo is a Suzuki in disguise. The Denso wiring is different than the SI. I'm guessing that if you wire the Denso up like a SI, the current will flow through the small jumper causing a drain on the battery at all times. Dennis already proved this with his ammeter check.
Dennis: sounds like you are close to figuring this out. Looks like an interesting alternative to the SI
From what Dennis said and what I have read, I'm sure that the Dennis has the Denso alternator, not the Delco SI.
What I meant when I said I'm speaking about a Delco 10SI is that I believe the two shown in Dennis' link are wired the same as a 10SI. Not that one of them was a 10SI. The rear of the ACDELCO 3342021 is configured like type 2 of Gord's link (Westfield World.com). It has 4 connections. Has the circular receptacle with three blade terminals and a separate battery stud. I hope that this "smaller" alternator is really necessary.
At any rate Gord has provided electrical hook up for a Denso. May be the same as your Delco. The last link spends a lot of time saving 1/2 volt and discourages the "jumper thing", but is very informative. The dead horse has been beaten.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
It's alive! For what it's worth, I checked the voltage today as suggested. At rest it is 12.92 and 14.25 running. Didn't measure the overnight discharge rate but it won't start after 5-7 days. This was just after fully charged with bat. maintainer. What gauge wire would you say is correct for the switched power? And to clarify, it is not a 10SI but is suppose to be ACDELCO 3342021 as shown as the first alternator in my link above. However, the 2nd alternator RA shows DENSO 2104147 for the same application so seems like Gord's comment apply.
Good for you. 14 Ga should be good enough for the switched power.
Take/share some pictures. I might want to change my generator to an alternator in the future. The Denso looks like interesting.
I'm still not clear about the pulley change. You removed the pulley for the serpentine belt and replaced it with a pulley for a v-belt. Where did you get the pulley for the v-belt?
I didn't find exactly what I used for the pulley, but this looks like it. Note that some pulleys are larger diameter, but this seems right to me. There was an issue with getting the right length spacer to keep the pulley off the housing. This link shows 2 different lengths included so one of those may be right. You can get different lengths of these on ebay too.
As luck would have it, I don't have a free 14ga wire on my fuse panel. Just 18ga. So I'm looking at coming off the ign. switch with an in-line 15A fuse. Sound right?
That monitor circuit could be run with a 20 GA wire- - - - -it carries virtually no current. A 5A fuse should be plenty, and the 18 GA wire will have several times the capacity needed. Just be sure it gets "switched" voltage, not constant. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The Toyota wiring diagram I provided a link to in an earlier post shows 7.5 A fuses for the sense (S) and warning light (L) wires and 10 A fuse for the ignition (IG) wire. Looks like the 10 A fuse is the fuse for the instruments which are switched on when the ignition is on.
Geez, I didn't even notice the schematic you provided Gord. Sorry about wasting time on that. I'm only using pins 2 and 3. I correct that the link showing the pinouts is viewing the plug showing the pins (the end that plugs into the alternator), not the incoming wires?
Sounds like you've got it OK to me. It would be great to have the Geo/Suzuki wiring diagram to confirm that the sense terminal is not used. The Toyota diagram is good for explaining what the terminals do but I expect that it is for a different model alternator where the sense terminal is used. I see that it says that if you don't switch the power to the IGN terminal, you will run the battery down - just as you found out!
Not sure the downside of not using the Sense terminal. Seems to work fine but maybe I should at least jump it to the Bat lug on the alternator? I realize from the article it would give a slightly higher voltage than pulling closer to the battery. Thoughts?
Changing to switched power did the trick as you guys knew it would. I didn't have a spare switched power lead available out of the fuse panel so I just ran off the ign. switch with an in-line mini fuse. After words I saw an adapter at NAPA that plugs into where a fuse would be in your fuse panel effectively adding another fused circuit there. That seems a little cleaner but works fine as is. Here are a couple of photos to show the lack of room with the A/C compressor below. You have to look hard though. Dennis
