The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop To dip or Blast that is the question ???

ok just want to get some opinions on which is the better way to go as far as the cab body on my truck is it better to have it dipped or soda blasted? i have heard both good and bad about each and a little confused ??? thanks in advance Earl

Earl,
Only thing that scares me on the Dippin is around the cab corner's ya cant get in there to remove the Dip and I was SCARED of that.
so I went with blastin (MEDIA) .
This paint job gonna be pricey enough without Dip ooozin out later an ruinin paint .
Just my thoughts.
Tim

Howdy Earl,

In my opinion the Soda is the way to go unless you have a bunch of rust. Then the rust needs to be brushed with a sand blaster. Soda blasting won’t do anything for rust. If you can find someone that does soda and sand blasting they can remove the paint/bondo with the soda and brush any rust you have with a sand blaster. Make sure they stay off of the flat stuff with the sand blaster especially if they are using some big monster blaster. An honest and experienced operator is best even if it does cost a little more.

I have never had anything of mine dipped, but…. Say it cleans the entire part inside and out and remove paint/undercoating from all the metal surfaces. I would think it would leave you open for problems on the inside of the doors and stuff where you may have had something like undercoating before where now you have nothing. In my opinion you would have been better off not having all that exposed. “I am not an expert, just in my thinking”. Of course all this is my opinion. I have read a lot on the Stove Bolt and noticed that folks have posted things in other post that has sort of helped me form that opinion.

Soda blasting is really neat in how it can take paint off with out the peppering the metal like sand blasting does. I understand it to be some form of explosion/reaction with the paint when the soda hits it at a high rate of speed. You could take a truck with all the chrome, rubber and glass out to the soda blaster and get it back with clean with no paint left. The soda will not harm even the glass. Plus it will not rust as fast while you’re getting ready to prime the part. I have had a couple of my body parts soda blasted and have been real happy with it.

I hope it helps.
Good Luck!
Michael

Earl,

I choose to have my cab dipped, it gets in ALL the tight places you cannont hope to reach by other methods. The rust you see on the cab is from the body man NOT cleaning and priming as promised it rusted in his shop (*%$tard). I have picture of the process here.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/418332987uAZJiR


Before I had the cab dipped, I tried Soda blasting, it does not remove the heavy rust so you are still faced with the problem, not to mention the roof area if you have a double roof as the 60-66 series trucks have. Soda pictues here.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/414823796vWvHlX

a good dipper uses a kind of self etch primer as the last dip so it will not rust any wear u just got to findone

Say Jake, I know pricing depends on what part of the county one lives in, but do you think you could share with me what it cost you to have your cab and hood dipped? I've been looking at having mine blasted and the quote was $1500 for the whole thing, cab, doors, hood, fenders bed. I'd like to compare that to the cost of dipping.
Did you guys run into any problems with the seams and not being able to get the chems out of them?
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I would not soda blast anything. Several major paint companies like PPG will NOT warranty their paint once soda blasting has been involved.
The soda leaves behind a thin film on the metal that is very hard to remove. This film wont allow paint products to adhere to the metal even when sanded/grinded.

Do some research on the type of soda the blaster uses before hand.

A good dipper will do a second wash to neutralize any chemicals. This way you dont have chemicals seeping out from seems.

My current 49 will get dipped, metal worked then ecoated, will look brand spanking new...Eric

Denny,

I have not checked the ppost in a while but the cost of having the hood, and cab done was $550.00 at redi-strip in Jackson, MS.

Thanks Jake,
I think that's gonna come out just about the same as blasing. I'm not nuts about the finish that is left after blasting. I did call Redi-Strip out side of Chicago about my doors this spring and they were shooting me a price of around $400 for the two doors, seemed a little steep. They also didn't seem to know anything about post-dipping in a phosphate bath.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

http://www.precisionresto.com/index.html

Blasting, dipping and ecoating

sevt_chevelle,

Did you find that documented somewhere that PPG will not warrtanty anything that has been soda blasted? I have not been able to find that myself and the folks at distributer tell me that they are not aware of any issues.

I would have to do some digging in my tech manuals for that. But Dupont is another company that washed their hands of soda blasting. PPG and Dupont DON'T do anything without handing each others hand. Meaning if one company comes out and says something about a certain technique then rest assured the other company wont be far behind.

A good friend of mine who works for PPG as a PPG rep(not some counter lackey) is one who informed me about the PPG ruling on soda blasting.
From my understanding they came out with the non warranty with soda blasting because they were taking it in the shorts because of complaints and redos because they cant get paint to stick.

This is a somewhat new thing as of about 1-2yrs that they wont warranty paint with soda blasted cars...Eric

I'll let you know..I watched my 55 frame and cab go down the street yesterday on a flatbed. I was grinning ear to ear. I've planned the total strip for years. It will be media blasted mon and tue. The only blaster we have here uses a combination of plastic and other minerals but no soda. I've had some fenders done in the past and they come out awesome. They look like they were primerd in light grey primer...a matte finish...very through. Costly here thou...cab and chassis = $1000. It's worth it to me though..it's the level I want to work at...I probably have watched Boyd and Chip too long..

Have fun with it..

Keith

All,

I have called/emailed PPG and am gathering some info on Soda/Dip and what they say. I did the same for DuPont but they have not answered me yet. I will post it here as soon as I get the info together if anyone cares? I can say the folks at PPG are super helpful and willing to spend some time to call you back.

Hey thanks for all the thoughts and info on this i have gotten alot of good info. and also would like to know has anyone had a cab/bady parts derusted useing Electrolysis rust removeal i have heard about a couple of companeys that do that now . thanks Earl

Hey V-6 Fix Modelman, do you have the number for Redi-Strip in Jackson Mississippi. Thanks Tony

All,

If anyone is interested, I got in touch with the nice folks at PPG and DuPont and got some pretty good answers on my worries about soda blasting. I just had to know what issues they have seen with soda blasting and issues with paint. My main concerns were not that PPG won't warranty my paint, it was that I was not doing something the right way and that would cause me to redo it. I am pretty sure that paint manufactures are not in any way going to warranty paint for someone like myself painting in his or her back yard. I have used PPG paints in the past and have always had good luck and they have seem to hold up well. I had a body shop friend that was real real pick about things and PPG is what he always used. So I figure, PPG is a good product if something happens to cause it to break down it will indeed be my fault but there is no reason to hose it up the from start with because I did not know or because of an opinion.

First off they tell me that PPG and DuPont paints are not intended to be sold to the general public. Of course any one can walk into any paint seller and get himself a box or three of these products. I am sure they know this and this is their way of covering their behind if anyone gets sick using their products because they did not understand the safety precautions. Just because some one is a professional does not mean they understand the precautions either. I watched Chip Foose spray clear coat once with a 3M dust mask. I got that on tape if you guys want to see it. I am pretty sure the masks with the pink cartridges is a sanding dust only sort of thing and you should not use them to paint in. Now I am assuming they have a huge panel of experts in paint and safety. Now that’s professional experience painting in what I feel us a dust mask not a painting mask. I see them all the time never having anything over their eyes in a paint booth. Enough of that...

I have talked to 3 different folks at PPG. All of them have pretty much the same story. I can tell that one of the persons I spoke with had a lot more experience and some personal opinions as well. This guys was the most helpful. This guy gave me the feeling that he had a lot of background in auto body painting.

So from what I can glean from my conversations and emails. PPG only recommends sand and media for blasting during the paint removal process. Their training manuals have these forms of blasting listed as something that they would "recommend". Soda blasting and the chemical dips are not listed in there. The guys I spoke with thought that this was due to the fact that only sand and (media - plastic) would only leave a speck in the paint if someone did not clean it well enough to remove all media left behind. And.. If someone were to use a dip/chemical or soda and did not clean the surface being painted it could cause problems with the adhesion of the paint. And this means anyone using something like paint stripper to remove paint, an ACID dip or soda blasting.

No one at PPG would tell me of any real instances or reported problems these forms of paint removal. The bottom line is that they are not something in their recommended list and logic would tell them it could cause issues if left behind. The most helpful guy at PPG said for someone using these processes to make sure the clean it well to insure that any no trace of it is left behind.

Now DuPont... I did get an email back from them simply stating "As long as the residue from the blasting material in cleaned off prior to using our system there should be no problem." Now keep in mind that I only talked to one person at DuPont. To be honest I did not try as hard with them as I did with PPG.

At any rate:
PPG said there are no documented issues but you could have issues if you do not clean it.
DuPont said good to go as long as you clean it.
No one said anything about warrantees. Not likely, I would have one anyway.

I am not trying to sell folks on soda blasting but it has worked well in cleaning some of my parts where a sand blaster may cause warpage. I also did some research to sure up my cleaning process after soda blasting. Diluting it with water or a solution of vinegar and water will get rid of the residue. Of course for the folks that are doing the dip, I am assuming the person that is cleaning your stuff will clean your parts well when they are done.

Now that being said:
Ok, now that is doing my research on it and I am glad I did for I feel much better about using Soda. I am sorry if you read this long response and did not find it useful. I just whish I would have had someone post this info for me when I was in the decision making process. I am assuming that most all the folks here know more about this stuff than me but if there is a chance someone need info about it here's what I found. My truck has been a learning experance for me and I learn something every day.

Thanks again to all the folks that have posted info and helped me.

My God Bless you..

Tony,

I just googled it and got:
Redi-Strip of Jackson Inc
750 Boling St Ste C
Jackson, MS , 39209-2652
Phone: 601-355-3317
FAX: 601-355-6950


http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/company.cfm?company=515640

Not sure if that is the one your wanting, sort of sounded like it.

You are right that PPG and Dupont WONT warranty their paint to a home user, can you blame them.

To get the PPG warranty you need to be a PPG certified shop and the paint in question had to be applied by a PPG MASTER certified painter. Granted just because one is PPG cert it doesnt mean they did it right. But more then likely if the shop is gonna go throu the hassle of getting those certs along with the painter they more then likely dont cut corners.
Am a PPG MASTER certifid painter and its not easy to get. I just dont see a hack spending all that time and money.

The problem with soda blasting is getting rid of the film left on the surface. As Dupont pointed out as long as the metal is clean its fine. But the problem lays with getting it clean. Try getting two guys that do soda blasting to produce the same answer on removing that film? Not gonna happen. Also using a mix of vinegar might not work depending on the soda used, as there are more then one.

Soda blasting doesnt remove rust anyway, so why not use plastic media instead. Plastic is used on fiberglass and aluminum. If any rust is present they come back with glass beads.

I know guys that have had good luck with soda I know guys that had nightmares with it. Im just saying I believe there are better methods out there then soda...Eric

I have hade a 72 hood distroid by soad blasting so i can tell u first hand that it will difinantly worp the metel

WOW, gmckustom, I have never heard of anyone having heat related issues with soda. Soda is used to strip paint from fiberglass so I was pretty sure that soda blasting did not gen any heat. So that does not sound right. I wonder if it was sand or something else.

I know sand will warp stuff pretty quick if your not careful.

I guess the bottom line is always going to be...

If you dip, soda, sand or plastic blast, the key always comes down to how well the preperation is. I'm sure that if a soda blasted, or chemical dip, or stripped paint job is properly cleaned, there will be no issues.

The likely hood of problems when chemical dipping and soda blasting is greater because of the extra cleaning and prep needed to ensure a quality paint job. There is no cutting corners when preparing a metal body.