This is my first post here I hope its in the right place.
My truck has been sitting for a long time and has rusted up, I have to move it, the brakes need work. I have replaced the master and vac booster, also the lines going to the wheel cylinders, now it time for the wheel cylinders, got them ordered. I have never done this before on the truck, I have the old wheel cylinders out, the adjuster are frozen solid. It looks like to me that they screw into a casting part that is attached to the backing plate. Any one help with a removal trick to get these things out?
Penetrating oil such as KROIL and heat from a Propane torch will free up just about any rust-stuck part. Patience and persistence is key to any type of work like this. Frustration and a BFH usually creates more work before the job is done.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I'm not certain of this but the part may look something like this , ( found this on ebay but not for my year truck https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/42892591375/in/dateposted/ i have the old one soaking in pb blaster , the star adjuster is broke off of one, dont know how i could on it to turn it out, maybe weld a nut on it then turn.
Last edited by dennryan; 08/02/20184:00 AM. Reason: add
Don't try to turn the threaded adjuster sleeve. The slot shown in the picture above is there to keep it from turning so the star wheel can move it in and out. If you try to force it to turn, the bracket on the backing plate will be damaged. Use a hammer and punch to turn the remains of the star wheel Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The only thing i tapped on was the star adjuster and the 2 ends of the bolt, with heat and the pb blaster. I broke the star adjuster on 1. There is only 1 bolt now holding the bracket to the backing plate but i cant remove it, it just spins. If i could get the bracket off I could work on it at home or take it to a machine shop and have it cut out. Right now its a 14 mile round trip just to soak in the blaster, i need to make a IV for it, LOL https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/28869998017/in/dateposted/
Last edited by dennryan; 08/02/20184:04 PM. Reason: add adjuster
Can you grind or drill the head off the bolt so you can remove the adjuster assembly and deal with the bolt later? If there's no electric power available, use a cordless drill and center punch the head of the bolt, then use progressively larger drill bits to nibble away at the bolt head. Once most of the head is gone, chisel the rest off. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I dont get to see the bolt head its hidden be hind a brake parts that supports spring, I dont know if a nut cracker will in this location on backside of backing plate, her are a few picture of that area. Thanks for your help. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/43809454801/in/dateposted/
Drill a hole in one of the flats of the bolt head and stick a pin punch into it to prevent it from turning. Once the part is off the backing plate it might be possible to use some kind of a puller or a slide hammer on the spring anchor to get it out of the bracket.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I will check again tommoro, but i see no bolt head at all, When I turn the nut on back of backing plate nothing is spinning on the front of backing plate, including the spring anchor. I might be able to get a cutoff wheel on that nut.
HRL's puller idea is a good one but with all that rust I'm not sure if you wouldn't just tear the head off that spring mount if you get too medieval. It still might be worth a try to apply heat and some PB and give it some reasonable tugs/taps with a slide hammer to see if you can get any movement. But if that fails, X2 on the cutoff wheel. If the nut/bolt spins freely you will have to slice the nut in half to free it from the bolt. Get the thinnest wheel you can and go for it. Good luck.
HRL's puller idea is a good one but with all that rust I'm not sure if you wouldn't just tear the head off that spring mount if you get too medieval. It still might be worth a try to apply heat and some PB and give it some reasonable tugs/taps with a slide hammer to see if you can get any movement. But if that fails, X2 on the cutoff wheel. If the nut/bolt spins freely you will have to slice the nut in half to free it from the bolt. Get the thinnest wheel you can and go for it. Good luck.
SimS
This is all new Territory for me, I have no diagram of how this fits together and I cant find any either , but it sounds like what being said is that this "spring anchor" is removable and the bolt not part of that. With the anchor removed that would expose the bolt head. Am I on the right track here?
I'm paranoid about destroying anything because I dont see many parts being sold new or used.
I had some luck this morning , my brake system seems to be "Wagner FR-3 Type" found a picture, also found a picture of a broken bracket, its broke right at the anchor and bracket come together, you guy says he found a used one for 400 bucks. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/43774981432/in/dateposted/
Last edited by dennryan; 08/03/20182:17 PM. Reason: add
Got both both backing plate brackets off today, wedged some screw drivers between front of plate and bracket, torched nut until cheery red and hit it with the impact gun. got them home and soaking in the KROIL now. Here are some pictures. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/28894047907/in/dateposted/
Well done. Another problem solved with FIRE. BTW, I know you said that the truck had been sitting for a long while. What's the history of it's last resting place? That's a lot of rust. Just wondering.....
I got it over 20 years ago a friend let me park it his place, witch is for sale now. When I went to move it there weren't any brakes seen the brake fluid running down the tire. I use't to haul top soil when i did work driving hauling concrete . A bunch of guys retired and i worked to much to do anything with it. Was a nice truck when i got it,, had a new Goodwrench 350, 5 speed, 2 speed axle (EATON i think), new tires. Now i'm retired. Truck was sitting under trees. It needs a gas tank to, i cleaned the old one but had to many holes in it. Replaced fuel pump and ran a hose to a 2 gal gas can for now.., just install rebuilt master and booster, and copper brake lines. I think it was a hiway dept truck at one time it got the snow plow attachment stuff on the frame and spreader box bar at the back. Its time for it to go to a new home. I have a friend in LA that just sent me a lot of information about these kind of brakes will be posting soon, its good stuff.
Not trying to be a smart donkey, but why are we discussing a vehicle that is outside the guidelines established by the site owners? This entire thread belongs in the Greasy Spoon. 1972 and older, or am I just wrong?ðŸ˜
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
I noticed that a little late but i think this information would be valuable concerning " Wagner FR-3 Type brakes" I would think these manual adjust brakes go some years back, maybe not. Maybe the post can be moved
Penetrating oil such as KROIL and heat from a Propane torch will free up just about any rust-stuck part. Patience and persistence is key to any type of work like this. Frustration and a BFH usually creates more work before the job is done.
Jerry got any tips on using the KROIL, ive had the parts soaking about 24 hours, should i maybe warm them first? Probably have about a week before parts get here.
Don't know if time is a factor in your project, but If you have a week or so to spare all the rust can be removed with basically no effort once you set up for the job. Go the feed store, buy enough molasses to mix a molasses/water solution at a 1-5 up to a 1-9 ratio and cover the rusty items. 1-5 will work pretty fast in hot weather.
To prep the parts you need to totally degrease and rinse well with water. Then submerge the parts in the molasses/water mix. Pull the parts in a week and if still rusty hit em with a wire brush and resubmerge. Check in another week and all the rust should be gone. You may find things are fine after the first week.
Yes, I've used this in the past. It won't remove paint and you can't have any grease or oil on the parts you want to clean.
I will have to try this, but for now im using the KROIL to get into those rusted threads in the adjuster screw. Thinking about tapping one end of the frozen adjuster screw then welding a bolt, to have a way to move and break it free. With fire of course. More pictures are up now https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/
Last edited by dennryan; 08/06/20181:28 PM. Reason: add
A propane torch will not be so hot. Alcohol or acetone will cut grease rapidly.
Ed
Ed are you suggesting I use propane or its not hot enough? I heat the brackets up , then apply the kroil and it does get sucked up in the threads. But i cant get the screw to move at all. Theirs just no way to smack on it hard enough to make it move without braking to adjuster wheel. Did some looking around today looking for machinist today.
O/A can get hot enough to melt the metal. But if you're careful and pay attention to color, it works better than propane, IMO. Given a choice between O/A and propane, I'll always chose O/A to free up rusty stuff. I've even used a cutting attachment to slice nuts off the bolts and been able to reuse the bolts.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Some progress today, I have 1 bracket adjuster screw out. I placed a vise grip on the adjuster wheel and went back and forth tapping (no heat at all) I seen it move very slightly, oiled it and keep doing that , it was loosing up. The screw comes out the other end of where I was thinking. The parts were in the KROIL for about 5 days. The other bracket is a different story, it has no adjuster on it. Thinking tap the other end, stick a bolt in it ,then turn. Im a happy camper today! Some of the parts arrived today. Here are some more pictures.
We now have the other bracket usable again, the machinist first cut a slot in the end of adjuster screw and then tried to turn it with a screw driver, then a impact screw driver , then with heat. It would not move, . He said lets cut it out! Placed it in his machine and bored all the way through, the adjuster screw was now in 2 pieces and practically fell out. The right tool for the right job. Now im gonna have to make a brake line from the bottom cylinder to the top one , Moving again , I like that. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dennryan/30114439628/in/dateposted/
