The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Hijacking Threads and Forum etiquette

BaconFarm I apologize for Hijacking your Thread. I ask a Legitimate Question about VIN numbers on an Antique Truck on a Antique Truck Forum, on a Thread were a Gentlemen was talking about restoring a Truck He had just acquired, Short and Sweet without a whole lot of long drawn out detail as not to Hijack the thread to much.

Nice Truck by the Way.

I started this Thread, so it is My thread, Any person wishing to ask any Question about anything in this Thread may do so. I was raised if a Person walked up, and appeared to have a question, you would be polite, A gesture of acknowledgement. Stop for a minute and ask may I help you or some such greeting. A gesture of acknowledgement. Get an idea of what the person wanted, before going off on them, if needed. It is not and was not My intention to cause problems here. I do not look for trouble, but when confronted I will respond. While I am dumb about Antique Restoration, I do not appreciate being Scolded, nor being treated as such. I had forgotten how touchy some can be about so-called thread hijacking on this Forum. I had seen it some 5 years ago, so if I do not like something I do not participate in it. On the Forum I Moderated I often reminded those Who Complained about such, that few Conversions really ever stay on the same subject, please refrain from attacks on innocent mistakes. I am not a Moderator here, so if I do not agree with the Moderators here, this is their house. I have my opinions but they are mine, I do not have to participate in this Forum and I have not, in 5 years.

But I had a Legitimate Question about Antique restoration and ask it on an Antique restoration site/forum. In the Antique restoration world, what is the proper accepted, ethical, legal way to restore a Truck you would like to switch Cabs on. I have My answer, now. But is it the Cab or the Chassis that is the actual Registered part of the vehicle. I am not really restoring the Truck to make it show piece, or anything like that. But Matching Numbers and things do matter in the Antique world, Do they not? And whether or not I am restoring this Truck as an Antique for Antique proposes or just to use. It is worth doing right and Proper as to not screw up an Antique, that could be of some value to somebody in the Antique world if done properly, at some point after I am Gone.

I ask my Question, unknowing the inconvenience and sensitive nature some have of it. But I got an Answer. I apologize for the Inconvenience I caused. And for making someone uncomfortable about a Subject they seem to be extremely sensitive about. I do know Why, but then it is none of My business nor concern, except I stumble into it. But will take My leave. Thank you to those Who helped or attempted to help.

Gee whiz, I didn't take the other thread as a scolding at all but simply advising you about how things operate here. Take a deep breath and calm down a tad. Constructive criticism is not a bad thing. The reason "hijacking" a thread is frowned on is because we (the moderators) go to great lengths to try to keep the forums organized and searchable. It's not difficult to see how things would get really out of whack if one thread contains information about fuel pumps, heater fuses and etch primer. Someone searching for the best primer to use on bare metal while searching the Paint & Body forum would miss the info because it's in a thread in the Engine Shop. Someone searching for heater fan fuses in the Electrical Bay would miss the info for the same reason.

The part about your data plate and title wasn't calling you a crook. It was simply advising that Stovebolt.com considers (rightly so) putting a data plate and/or title on a vehicle it didn't come on to be fraud and isn't condoned. There are sites that do condone the practice and even promote it. Someday those sites will likely regret their decision because Hemmings, Old Cars Weekly and other magazines have a lot of ads for lawyers who make a lot of money off of title fraud. We won't allow Stovebolt.com to be one of their targets.

There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here who can help with a wide range of topics but the site users need to help us help them. The rules are there for a reason but making a user's life difficult is not one of them. If you have any questions of concerns about site policy or procedures feel free to PM me or any of the Mods or site owners. A perusal of the FAQs would be a good thing as well. Good luck with your project.

With out trying to steer up the soup, I think the original question was legit, but was not ask 100% at the right place.
Probably a paint and body section related question though.
I think the intention behind is not do be outlaw or fraudulent, but simply keeping a good old vehicle on the road by replacing the cab, by a better one to facilitate the restoration or a collision repair, Wich is by the way, as far as I know a very common practice.
For example, if you own a 1965 two ton truck, registered under your name, and want to replace the cab from a donor truck, or one bought at a swap meet from said a 1965 3/4 ton because yours have exesive rust. My understanding here is, the two ton truck, still is a two ton truck, Wich technically, should carry the VIN number into the "new" cab. The "new" cab in question is just a part, same as a motor in an engine swap. Even if you have the said 3/4 ton "new" cab register under your name, the truck still not become a 3/4 ton because of the"new" cab.

Question about swapping Vin to add value or change a vehicle identity is fraudulent and should not be permitted in any way.

Anyhow, this is just my honest opinion, and how things are done around here.

J. F.

The Donor Truck is the same year and month as the receiving Truck, both C-60s. The Donor truck cab had been repainted at one time, a fairly nice job, but you can tell they were Same original colors. The Donor Truck was a Gain Truck with a longer Wheel base. So the Frame is not the same, all else is. Does the VIN number not reflect the Wheel Base of the Vehicle as well as the Original color. So the VIN on the Donor truck does not reflect the original Color, nor would it reflecting the actual Frame of the Truck it is potentially going to be placed on.

The data plate on the Left front side Panel of the Donor Truck was painted over, so I do not know the Gross Vehicle Weight and such of the Donor Truck. It has the same number of Leafs in the Leaf springs. But the VIN number does reflect such things. And the Donor Truck Cab VIN would not reflect the actual moving frame and Weights of the Truck it was on. But if it is illegal, none of that matters, whether the VIN Reflects the vehicle is as pointed out is a 1-2 ton vehicle, awhile not reflecting it is actually on a 3/4 ton Chassis, or vice versa.

So the Question would be should the Cab be swapped at all.

A quick search on this site shows a number of threads where people have swapped their body onto a different frame (same vintage, but better shape, or newer like an S-10).

I believe on most of our trucks, the VIN is stamped on the frame by the steering box. Let's say, you cut the front of the frame off and put a front clip off a Camaro or something else on it, Now there is no VIN on the frame.

That said, there are a number of scenarios where the VIN may not be completely accurate on these old rigs, especially the older ones that may have been modified and hot-rodded!

In my opinion, it is always best to check with the local DMV to ensure you are not creating a can of worms. Vintage travel trailers are even worse since a lot of them never had an actual VIN and a lot of them are bought and sold with no title!

When you swap cabs you move your old/existing serial number plate over to the new cab. That way the cab, frame (if 1955 or newer) and paper title all match. If there is a old plate on the donor cab, remove it as it no longer applies.

When I sell a cab off of a truck I always remove the old serial number plate so there's no question about it...you're buying a part only.

Mike B

Thank you Mike and 69 Cuda. Mike you say you remove the Serial number plate. I assume that is legal in your State. A person would have to get State approval and stamp for that wouldn't They? My State would be Different, from yours. I say this because it seem to be a matter of contention among many on this Forum and Pointed out many times It is My States DMV or DOT Laws on the issue. For me A Cab change would be easier, as far as labor goes, than than Changing Dented Fenders, Doors, Rust Hood one or each at a time. But if there is a Long costly process and for registering, and or getting a New State issue/ approved VIN Number process, changing the a fore mentioned parts maybe the better way for Me in My State.

You can see the debate in My other thread Should the Cab be swapped at all.

You are wise to ask that. I doubt it's legal in any state. A title and data plate is issued to one vehicle. If it's moved to a different vehicle the person doing the moving is putting themselves in legal harms way. As I noted above there are a lot of lawyers making their Porsche payments off of people who do that. Advising and/or assisting people to do that is not wise. If one is tempted to do that I would recommend contacting their state licensing authority to see if that state has a way to do the transfer legally.

No dog in this fight but a few years back I had a 49 5 window 1 ton with no title. An old guy just told me to switch the VIN plate from a rotted out 51 3/4 ton I had for parts since there was a title for that. So I would have ended up with a 49 titled as a 51 which I knew wasn't legal. I visited some with our local Highway Patrol officer at the time, he confirmed it was highly illegal to do something like. I ended up selling the 49 as it was, no idea what the new owner did with it. The ND DMV website says you can get a title for a vehicle w/o one by filling out some forms and having a HP officer verify the VIN. That is the official line but in actual practice that isn't done. I was told by the HP that they WOULD NOT do it. This in spite of being told by some on this forum that "there was NOTHING to" getting a title in ND. I won't buy a vehicle without a title now. Just my two cents FWIW.

ckell,

Is this the question in a nut shell? "I have a rusted out truck cab and I want to install a new/better cab...whats the process for transferring my Serial Number Plate to the new cab?"

If so, please call your local DOT and let us know what hey say!

Mike B

No not really. I understand about State Laws, I understand I should contact My state DOT and go through them for the Legal aspects. And I understand the Laws are to protect us all. But My State DOT is not in the Antique Truck Restoration Business. I ask a question about an Antique Truck on an Antique Truck Site.

Which is better, do all the legal Title swapping through the State. Or just replace parts, Doors, Fenders and such, from the Antique standpoint of keep a Truck as close to original as Possible. A Legal State Approved Retitling is not the Original Title. How important is keeping to the Original Title is that in the Antique World. Obviously any illegal Swapping is wrong on so many levels, so to discuss that was never My Intention. It seems some assumed that and I took acceptation to that assumption. And some discussions went down hill from there.

I was told on good Authority this Title Swapping is a Problem on other Sites, but not stove bolt, and those site are facing Illegal issues and Litigation And the Moderators have been ask to keep close tabs on such Discussions here. So I understand all that. But Automatic assumption of bad intentions, and prohibiting any Discussion on this issue is a different issue. I did not come here to fight with anyone. That was not My Intention, no more than it was to solicit information on illegal Title swapping.

I cannot post in the other thread I assume it has been locked out. The mentioning of Title issues sure stirred up a Hornets nest on here. I did not realize it was such an issue.

With a better understanding of your question the following question comes into play. Is it your intention to do a concourse type restoration or do you just want to get a decent looking truck back on the road fairly quickly? Putting parts on your currently registered truck would, other than the sweat involved, be the easiest. Keeps you out of your States DOT Office. I wouldn’t swap a cab unless there was just no other way to accomplish my goal.

"But Automatic assumption of bad intentions, and prohibiting any Discussion on this issue is a different issue."

No bad assumptions in any of those posts - just statements about legalities and difficulties to expect.

The only thing that was prohibited was the continued discussion of possibly inappropriate/illegal actions - actions that might cause you/someone problems.

FYI: I was told in NC (last year) that my excellent ownership documentation (titles/registrations over a 30 year period in three states) was useless in registering a truck that had the cab ID-plate replaced with a new plate (and/or an old plate replaced/reattached with new "rivets").

The professional and helpful inspector rightfully told me that he had no evidence to support/prove that the plate and cab were original to my vehicle. I did not argue with him, I simply asked if there was anything that I could do - he suggested a bonded title (an option that he was not required to offer to me - he said he trusted me due to my honesty and politeness).

Remind yourself of the first responses that you received here : check with your DMV before you buy/do anything, if you want to avoid problems.

Are we getting wrapped a little too tight around the axle on this, boys?

All assumptions aside, the bottom line (VERY neutrally provided) and the *last word* on this is our standard Stovebolt response -- Contact your local DMV/MVA and ask them how to proceed. That the title is legal and clean is all that matters in the truck world. "Original" means very little to us truck guys when it comes to titles. All that matters is that it is legal. And defining "legal" is above anyone's paygrade at Stovebolt.com.

Let us end this here and move on to more enjoyable conversation, shall we?

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