The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Ethanol-laced fuel

What are the facts -- is ethanol bad? Does it eat rubber gas lines, seals and gaskets?

Anybody know for sure? (You know what they say about opinions ...

Thanks,
John

I hate it. The corn farmers lobby got it pushed through here maybe 6-8 years ago so all our gas has something like 10% ethanol now. It eats old carbs and fuel pumps until you rebuild them with newer kits. It gets 10-15% worse mileage so you burn more fuel. I might be a moron, but doesn't burning more of it cancel out the better emissions it produces? Also, the ethanol plants stink. And the farmers don't even like to run the crap. Other than that it's OK I guess. LOL

Im a farmer and I ran it when I was at college where they sold it the same price as regular, and it had a octane rating that was 2 higher than regular, never saw any problems, never saw any gas mileage decrease, or had any kind of problems at all. But that was on a my '90 mustang and gmc pickup. And city people think everything stinks.

I have always been told not to run it in my boat.

No one who loves Stovebolts can read all this but here goes!!

You can hardly avoid ethanol in your gasoline. It raises the octane rating and has been essentially mandated by the Feds. You pay 5 cents per gallon of gasoline in hidden Federal subsidy in your taxes to the ethanol producers if you use ethanol. I like the producers, especially if they have some ol' Chevy trucks out back!! I think the fuel lines, gaskets, etc. can take it now.

The old "gasohol" of the 1970's had more ethanol than what is used now. They dropped the "gasohol" term because it was bad for marketing. The Feds mandated "oxygen" or "oxygenated fuels" in gasoline in the early 1990's to counter (they thought) increased carbon monoxide (CO)emissions. CO is the one and only reason for using the stuff. "Oxygenated" does not mean "busting to burn." It is actually stuff which is already partially oxidized or "burned." Methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) was the "choice" because ethanol was too volatile for a different set of Fed standards. Ethanol creates pollution by pure evaporation. The gas companies were told to use MTBE and are now being sued because it caused more water pollution problems than ethanol would have in the first place! I think they've waved the volatility standards to use more ethanol. Geez!

Yes, please pollute my glass of ice water before dinner with a bit of ethanol. But hold the MTBE, please.

Missoula, MT and Fairbanks, AK were the only two cities which could switch from MTBE after the first year of use in 1991. The good citizens of these two towns were so used to clean air that the smell of MTBE made them queezy, like a doctor's office. (I'm a chemist and can handle the smell!!!!) We got to switch to ethanol in the second year.

The big problem with the MTBE "oxyfuel" is its good solvent properties (like carb cleaner). It loosened up gas tank crud when it was first introduced. My friend had his engine rebuilt when a new fuel filter would have sufficed.

The enormous question is whether MTBE or ethanol has had any noticable effect on carbon monoxide levels at all. Evidence shows the millions of dollars in extra at-the-pump fuel costs in lil' ol' Missoula since 1991 has NOT had any measurable effect!!!!!

Fellow Bolters,

Here in Brasil ethanol in gasoline is a reality for a long long time. We use to have up to 25% of it into gasoline. No problems except that You have to run a li'l bit richer than if running pure gasoline. Does not corrode rubber parts, but a li'l bit rough on metal. Older carbs seems to suffer more, no problems with EFI.
Have a bunch of cars here using Holley double pumper carbs no problems, and I use my Ram truck only on regular gasoline, it's going 70k miles on the odometer and no sweat also.
I can see clearly that there is a good performance gain once the final octane rating is much bigger than pure gasoline. At first, when we were forced to have it in 1980, we complained a lot, latter we all discovered it's more a bless than a sin, and we can live happily with it.
Also an important note, all our alcohol production came from sugar cane, that is accepted here as the best alcohol producing vegetable of all, due to our climate and general scene.
As a matter of fact we have straight alcohol powered cars here and they do go on quite well. The introduction of alcohol efi in 1992 made it quite simple.

For those who want their fuel oxygenated

[img]http://www.myoldtruck.com/forums/themes/tabmenu/smilies/nxsmile.gif[/img] [img]http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/images/smilies/burnout.gif[/img]

Most gasolines contain at least a small amount of ethanol or methanol as an anit-cing agent. Alcohol mixes well with water and fairly well with gas, so it tends to keep small amounts of water mixed into the fuel, rahter than settling out. If water settles it can freeze, so keeping it mixed works. Typical, about 1/2 percent alcohol is sufficient to do this. At this level, it doesn't hurt any car parts.

Stoichiometric ratio for case is about 14:1, for alcohol it's about 6:1, so if you are going to run pure alky you need to rejet your carb big-time. Ask the drag racers who run it. It does butn cool, so it supports a higher compression ration that a gasoline engine. An alky race engine can be 14:1 or more, compated to 10:1 for tha same motor on gas.

Because you need more fuel per unit of air, you will see less mileage per gallon with alky-based fuel. You are also effectively running a leaner mix than before, though depending on the amount of alky you may not need to rejet. Or you might.

OTOH, since the effective octane may be higher, you might be able to advance the timing a bit and get back a little performance and economy.

The various types of rubber, cork, and varnishes used in old gaskets and other parts are not alcohol-friendly, so if you're running an old carb you *may* have problems with leaks or other failures. I'd guess every carb out there has been rebuilt with modern parts by now, but you may be the exception.

The bottom line is, for better or for worse if you live in a state that mandates it, you're gonna get it. Adapt. Is it a wise policy for the gummint to mandate it? I think that's
out of scope for *this* discussion forum. ;-)

Cheers!
George