The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Making a Working Stomp/Foot Starter for New Motor

Good Morning,

I'm wondering if someone has used the original Stomp/Foot starter on a 51 Chevy for a non-original motor using a lever switch. I'd like to use the foot starter with the original key switch to make the interior look original and everything to have a function. I'm thinking you would have to mount the foot starter but limit the travel enough so that it hits the lever on the switch to complete the circuit to turn the starter motor over. Do any of you have any good ideas on how to accomplish this or have done this in the past?

What sort of non-original motor? I put a 1959 235 in my 53 one ton, just had to find the proper bell housing and flywheel to make it work.

Tim

From his user name it might just be a Cummins diesel. More details on your transplant and truck please! It will help us help you.

Ok, sorry. I put a 4bta with a T19 4 speed on an 84' s10 chassis and using the body work of a 51' 3100 and would like to reuse the foot starter. Would some sort of foot starter work from an old tractor? I would have to figure out the wiring needed for it as well. The connection can't be mechanical so I have to figure out a way to make it electrical.

You could use a small switch with lever on it that gets activated by the pedal and use that to pull in a starter relay. My 7.3L has a starter relay that gets a signal from the ignition switch thru a small gauge wire. It powers up a larger gauge wire that connects to the starter solenoid on the starter to activate it. There's also a cable directly from the battery to the starter. I believe the Ford ( ) starter relay sells for about $12.

You would have to rig up some sort of bracket to hold the lever switch, but that doesn't seem like a difficult task.

You have a 4bta and a T19 on a S10 chassis and you are wanting an "original" foot start? Wow! That's odd as hell.

I suppose you would just turn on the glow plugs with an ignition switch on dash and rig a sealed, momentary, normally open, push button, switch. To be operated by a "looks like original" foot peg on the floor. Said switch would operate the solenoid. Simple.

Unless there is something different about a diesel. I know nothing about diesel starting system.

Also what is this "lever switch" everyone is talking about??? the old foot stomp, linkage operated switch on top of the old starter?

There would be no need for a relay. The solenoid is a relay.

Would like to know how much of the original foot start mechanism you have so I can suggest a modification. A pic or two of hole in floorboard and clearance around that hole in engine bay.

I am currently working on a fake stomp starter for applications like yours. All I have left to do is create a simple way to easily attach it to the hole in the toeboard from the inside of the cab.
It involves a pipe/plunger/micro switch affair all hidden by the original bellows and uses the original pedal button. It requires a 50 amp relay to protect the micro switch, original ignition switch, and a start-in-park/neutral safety switch if you use an automatic transmission. The problem with the GM 12 volt starter solenoid is that it can pull 50 amps initially until the plunger gets pulled all the way in, then the much lower amp hold-in coil windings takes over for the pull-in coil windings.
Once I can get my naked cab home (soon I hope) I can wrap up the attachment to the toeboard fabrication. I need the hole to get that done.
I have one on my '49 with a 350 and TH400 and it works very nicely!
I will keep you posted on my progress.
Carl

Here's what I was referring to. Could be mounted to be actuated by the original linkage or some other method, But I like your idea of a push type switch. I doubt an original starter would spin even a 4BTA diesel over fast enough to start it, so a relay is a must to isolate the switch to use a strong enough starter motor.

I assume he is using a 4bta starter. Diesel motor stock solenoid. I assume we are just energizing it.

Agree.

Carl, just use a 60 amp Bosch-type relay, triggered by the micro switch. There are dozens of them on Ebay, cheap! You could also use a momentary-contact horn button under the foot pedal, which would be more durable than a micro switch.

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.c...Xqcb62gIVi5OzCh1YXw9_EAYYBCABEgJh0vD_BwE

Jerry

I have had similar idea and instead of all this talk of relays and wimpy switches...
Use a floor starter switch like used for old tractors, it’s already sturdy, mounts to floor, and way more capacity than necessary to trigger starter relay.
Only need to machine a cap for it with 3/8-24 stud on top for original button.

I’ll find the switch part number soon and post it.

Grigg

Here's someone else's pictures and explanation of the switch on the floor with old button on top.
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...9884/faux_stomp_starter.html#Post1139884
In his picture link go to page 3

I purchased a starter button from NAPA, they have several different ones that would work, longer and shorter.. I'll check and see what I used.

Grigg

Ok thanks for the info. I was searching through a different website and someone had the same idea and I took some of the things from him. You should be able to use this setup on any engine. My engine doesn't have glow plugs, just has a grid heater. It also has a fuel shutoff solenoid, will try and post pictures if I can get it to work.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=538528

Bartamos, yes you are correct. The original starter is from a Ford.

I tried that with a tractor switch but was not able to make it work reliably due to the sloppy action of the switch and the fact that the stamped sheet metal button cap deformed when the set screws of the custom machined cap were tightened down.
I wish that I would have remembered to bring my prototype to Homecoming a couple weeks ago so you could have seen what I came up with. It works very well, is durable, and looks original when installed. I have one on the truck I drove that day, but you wouldn't have been able to see what's inside.
Carl

I'm with you on a more durable switch, but with a v8 shoehorned in the engine bay, I was limited to a setup which all fits inside of the starter pedal bellows, with nothing protruding through the toeboard except for 2 wires. Like I told Grigg, I wished I'd've brung it up to Homecoming a couple weeks ago to show you.

Can you share some pictures of your setup?

I wonder if there’s a more robust version of the tractor type foot switch still available?
We used a very old Prestolite foot starter switch on my Dad’s boat and it is nicely made, but I only had the one.

Here are the pictures from the setup i might be using, bought all parts for less than $20.

If you follow his link to 67-72 trucks site, you will see the original idea with the complete mounting method, instructions and a finished photo of it installed. The poster there has called the switch by the wrong part number. It is actually Echlin ST6. Sold at Napa. Looks like a good idea.

Further, this business about current draw for an ignition switch or push button switch. IF we are talking an electric solenoid, the ignition switch sees low amps. The draw to energize the solenoid is low. The big starter draw is then handled by the big solenoid/relay contacts, battery cable and battery. The solenoid is a relay just like any relay, the switching activation of the relay is low draw, then it's big contacts inside handle the big draw. The common solenoid has two functions, relay and electromagnetic/electromechanical actuator. (for the starter pinion gear). The auto parts stores can't make up their minds whether to call it a switch, starter solenoid or a starter relay.

We must not be confused by the big honkin foot stompin switch on top of a non solenoid starter. That is not a relay, it does carry a big amp load. That is why is has a big lug that pushes on the starter big lug. That there is a double acting, lever actuated, mechanism. Pushing on a huge push button switch and sliding a gear into mesh at approximately the same time. The ignition switch on that system sees low amps also because it is isolated from the stomp switch. Your foot being the "solenoid". That would be a electrophysiological anatomical actuator. Possibly.
Speaking of big lugs: I did study under Professor Irwin Corey.

Try measuring the current draw on a solenoid pull-in winding sometime before you start giving advice. The initial surge of the pull-in winding is over 50 amps. Once the pinion gear is engaged the current drops to around 5-8 amps for the hold-in winding. A Ford-type magnetic starter switch does not have the heavy current surge of an electro-mechanical solenoid. The surge current will damage some universal ignition switch "start" contacts that are not designed for GM type starter solenoids. Ask the guys who were at the homecoming what happened to the jumper lead I used when I demonstrated the operation of both windings.
Jerry

So you want to give me a hard time for a 1/2 second surge? Does that prove I'm wrong about something?

The wire from an ignition switch to energize a solenoid can vary 12 14 16 gauge. If a solenoid was not used and the high motor currents were carried thru the ignition switch, heavy cable would be needed to limit voltage drop. Since the ignition switch is some distance from battery and solenoid, the long leads connected to the switch can be of reasonable size since they conduct only a small current drawn by the solenoid switch winding. The hold-in winding contains many turns of fine wire. The pull-in windings are the same number of turns of larger wire. When the ignition switch is operated, the current from the battery flows to solenoid "S", thru the hold-in windings to ground.(back to battery). The current also flows thru the solenoid motor terminal, thru the motor windings to ground. The magnetism created by each winding adds together to form a strong pull on the plunger. In a half second this closes the circuit between the solenoid battery terminal and the motor terminal and cranking happens.
The pull-in winding operates to assist the hold-in winding in pulling plunger into the core. Once plunger movement is completed, less magnetism is needed to hold plunger to disc. Now battery and motor are connected and the pull-in winding is shorted and no current flows thru it.

So I stand by my "advice"/previous post. Using a 50 amp useless factoid to disparage a friend is not needed. These systems have operated with small wire, low actuation current, no additional relays, standard ignition switches, universal ignition switches, no fuses and without failures. Where's the beef?

I'm not discussing micro switches.

Carl: Check out that idea posted here. It looks pretty good. Not much fab and cheap. Yours is probably good also but look at that one too. I think it's a tractor start button, not sure. The overall design is compact like yours. Does not stick into engine bay much. 1" ? Maybe find a 90 deg. rubber insulator boot for the hot studs. Similar to the one's on alternators.
To fit over the ring tongue terminals and over the stud?

Why build in a potential problem when it can be solved by using a $5.00 relay? People used to think using an electric starter instead of a hand crank was an extravagant waste of money.
Jerry

10-4

Some people need pain meds.

Back on topic Gentlemen.

Sorry for my reply, arrogance is hard to stomach so early in the morning.