Here is the situation. Engine is a 216, Carb is a Carter YF 964S Just put in new needle and seat and accelerator pump system. Adjusted the float to closed position of 25/64 using a drill bit, IAW the rebuild directions with a 1 and 1/4 inch float drop. Carb still floods out and dumps gas. Have recently installed a fuel pump that I had laying around from another stove bolt. Is there a difference in fuel pumps between the 216 and 235? What else would cause flooding out? I had this trouble before I put in the new parts and was trying to correct it with a quick rebuild of the carb. Engine ran fine upon initial start up and then the flooding starts and it stalls out.
What is IAW? I would suspect float setting wrong or too much fuel pressure. Gasket on backwards (there may be a gasket with a hole that's blocked or should be blocked?). Choke is on....or you did not clean carb good enough.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
The float setting that could be wrong would be the drop. Could you give a little more info?
1. Does it start right up after a few minutes? 2. Does it "stall" out after only a few minutes/seconds? 3. I assume you are calling it "flooding" because you said "dumps gas". Dumps it out of where exactly? 4. Does anything keep it running? 5. Anything else you can think of? that you did.
For 1946, the pumps are the same part number for 216 and 235.
The pumps have check valves that need to be operating per normal, as does the diaphragm.
What is supposed to happen when we click your webshots link?
Have you checked the fuel pump pressure? 3-4 PSI is plenty. More than that would possibly push the needle valve off its seat. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Quest.#1 Sometimes, I think it needs time to dry out after flooding #2 About a minute #3 Looks like the throttle shaft #4 Nothing keeps it running after it floods. Tried choke, no gas peddle just quits. #5 The mounting gaskets all have the slots cut out so that the vent hole is most likely exposed, but will check.
Jerry, had the same thought, will get a gauge and check. Previous fuel pump failed and I cleaned out a lot of gray slim from the float bowl and used spray cleaner everywhere else, every hole and passage. I have an inline filter between the tank and the fuel pump as well. So theoretically, good filtered fuel from a cleaned out tank gets to the fuel pump. My plan is to check the pressure from the fuel pump, pull the carb apart again, soak in cleaner and reassemble.
Good plan. My experience is that spraying with carb cleaner at the holes, in the holes, at the jets, in the jets and openings just does not clean a carb. Now that you say you saw gray matter, that requires a soak after almost TOTAL disassembly of all internal parts. There are a lot of parts to that little carb. You can see that a good rebuilder is charging a fair price for all that effort and expertise and they use good parts.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
The only thing that keeps a flooding engine running is air- - - - -LOTS of it, like wide open throttle. In order to flood, the gas has to get past the needle valve faster than it's being used by the engine, raising the level in the float bowl high enough for the fuel to spill over into the venturi. There's two ways for that to happen- - - -trash between the needle valve and the seat, or too much fuel pressure. A damaged needle valve or seat is also a possibility. Also check the float to see if it's partially filled with gasoline from a pinhole leak. Remove the float and shake it. If anything inside sloshes, replace it. It's almost impossible to empty and then repair a leaky float. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Most aftermarket carb kits do not include the correct spring-loaded 0.076 fuel valve (no longer commercially available), and instead include the common (and cheap) valve for the Ford 300 CID six.
There is a spring-loaded fuel valve still commercially availably, but is the incorrect height and the orifice is too large.
If you do have the proper valve, the adjustment is made with the float resting on the "golf tee" of the plunger, NOT pushed down by your finger.
The carb will flood with the incorrect valve or setting.
Jon.
Last edited by carbking; 04/12/201812:21 PM.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
OK, thanks, I didn't know about the spring loaded valve. Looks like I have to actually go do some work today, so I can't get to this until later. But since I am pretty sure the fuel pump is the culprit, was there a difference and does it matter if I replaced a glass bowel pump with a sealed version? Could the later model have higher pressure to support a bigger engine and possibly the Rochester B? I swear this engine is cursed, but ran pretty well, except for the knock, until I put this pump on.
I always go back to the old Sun tester slogan that they put on all their machines back in the dark ages- - - - -"We test, not guess". It takes about 5 minutes to check the fuel pump pressure.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
How fast was your carburetor rebuild routine? Half fast? Please take no offense. I am guilty of changing out just the defective part in a carburetor to get it back on the road (like changing out only the accelerator pump diaphragm of a Carter YF due to premature failure from modern gas blend). Sometimes that strategy bites me in the butt, most of the time it works out.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
No, I haven't been able to get back out to the truck. I spent the day clearing snow from my house and I don't know if the place I have it stored has been plowed. I have to check the fuel pump pressure and if that is OK, pull the carb again and soak it clean.
I don't know why some of us run these rochesters into the ground? My rochester (235' 6 cyl.) daily driver for 8 years now with only a filter change once a year seems to be as dependable as my 2008' duramax .
I have also not had any bad luck with my 1954 Rochester carburetors. The include minimal/no leaks at the lid-to-base seal. I may just be lucky (and, my total experience has only been with one 216, three 235s, and two 261s).
I have, however, seen some older Rochesters with warped tops and resultant leaks.
My guess is a few Rochester problems might be due to:
- old/bad gas - "debris" in fuel tank - no fuel filter - dirty air cleaner (and/or bad seals in/around air cleaners) When any of these occur, your carburetor is seriously/negatively affected, and a good rebuild or good replacement is needed.
Don't anybody go crazy here, Bill and I have been jabbing each other over this for years. He called and offered to lend me one yesterday. I will agree that some rochesters work but I would rather go with the YF
If I had a choice between rebuilding a Rochester vs using/rebuilding a Carter YF, I'd go with YF (as long as it was an early one that fits the 1954 air cleaner).
OK, miracle seems have taken place, or I got lucky with the float setting. I checked the fuel pump and it appears to work within limits, but I am not satisfied with it and will replace in the the future. So I got it running and can now get to the real problem of the knock. I believe it is a main bearing, but before I drop the pan would like some of your collective thoughts. So after two hours of trial and error, I think I have it on You Tube. Take a listen and let me know, if this works that is.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
my truck did that 3 times with no real reason as far as I ever found. I put on a carter, the fuel stopped leaking, but it ran like crap, I put on one of Tom Landgons little 2 barrel, it ran poorly, I wedged the heat valve in the opposite position it was in, and that really made it run bad. I changed plugs, wires, rotor, points, condensor, gas tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, timed, retimed. Nothing helped, so I put the original rochester back on, it still ran poorly, then one day it just started running fine, like it had for 25 years. Never did figure it out.
Mike, try listening with an automotive stethoscope in various areas including the pan. A main knock should be louder from underneath whereas valve noise would be louder up top.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
