The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop V8 Swap - Steering issues (again)

First of all, allow me to apologize - As someone here pointed out, these are the stovebolt forums and here I am about to ask questions about replacing my stovebolt engine. I tried to keep the 235 as long as I could - I really did - but lack of stovebolt parts availabilty here in Hawaii has led me to finally do a chevy small block swap.

I'm in the process of fitting a 305/350 combo into my '52 1/2 ton (with stock steering/frame etc.) and am running into the same problems every else has (namely, the stock steering box). The FAQ here at stovebolt.com said using reversed 305 exhaust manifolds (pass side bolted onto driver's side) allowed the steering box to bolt back into the stock location. Well, that's not even close to working for me.

Right now I have the engine centered between the frame rails but am seriously considering offseting it an inch towards the passenger side to minimize the amount I have to move the steering box.

I've done a lot of searching on this issue - both here and at about 4 other forums - but nobody seems to be able to solve the problem: Is there ANY exhaust manifold out there - OEM or header type or whatever - that will clear the stock steering box WITHOUT having to move the box over off the frame? Or am I dreaming? It seems like most people have to move the stock box over an inch or two AND use creative exhaust manifolds (rams horn, block huggers, etc.).

As for me, one thing so far I've learned can be summed up in three little words: Short Water Pump. I wish I knew that before I started.

Thanks,
Keahi

I used a 1955-56 265 V8 exhaust manifold on my 1954 Chevy pickup and still had to move the engine over about a inch.

I think that is about the thinest manifold there is.

wdoftexas,

Did using that 265 manifold and the offset allow you to put the stock steering box back on the frame?

Thanks,
Keahi

Moving the steering box 1 inch has been a common practice since 1955 when the 265 came out. Most guys dont even notice and it really does not hurt a thing.

I used ram's horn manifolds, center dump, on my 350 and had to move my steering box 2", in addition to grinding the outlet of the manifold a little. I also had to chop my firewall for Distributor clearance in order to keep the 4-speek tranny in exactly the same place. I hated this setup and now, having blown the 350, am back to a 235 with everything patched up and moved back to original.

I have used the new style rear dump manifolds. No grinding. I have never used the stock 4 speed. If you use a short pump any small block will fit with no chopping of the firewall.

I'm using rear dump manifolds out of a 77 chevelle, as they were free and easier to plumb an exhaust systym to.The last time I tried to get someone to put in a new exhaust system to my old 55 with the 265 ,I had to drive all over the city to find a shop that had those kind of ends to join the manifold.

Thanks for all of the replies - I'm in the process of rounding up a short water pump and the right pulleys to fix the clearance in the front and also looking for some steel tubing to space out the steering box. The '79 Nova that I pulled the engine from has a driver's side exhaust manifold with a neat little dent where the steering box is but the steering box still needs to go out at least 1-3/4". Not the most elegant solution but it fits the budget right now.

I just wanted to post where im at with my conversion I first bought the engine and trans mounts from chevy duty but i really didnt like them so i bought the kits that chassis engineering has these are pretty nice .the trans mount bolts into the original holes.I bought a set of cc2 headers from sanderson but contrary to what they tell you they will not fit . im in the process of figuring out what im going to do with the steering box.I read alot about spacing the box out two inches which i will have to do but im a little concerened about the steering wheel being crooked .im thinking of putting in a ujoint kit so the steering wheel is straight.and im back to the drawing board on the exhaust.Im also interested in how other people are doing theirs to get ideas

Greasesleddin,

You got any pics with the engine/trans installed witht the chassis engineering mounts? I'd love to see them.

I used the universal tubular engine mount and was going to use the tubular trans mount but now I'm thinking of modifying and using the stock trans crossmember as well.

After talking to some more people I may try the 265 exhaust/offset engine approach instead of moving the steering box.

By the way, am I the only one with a spark plug to steering box clearance problem too? Even with no exhaust on there at all right now the steering box would hit the spark plug if I tried to bolt the box back in. I'm guess I'm going searching for some of those "header plugs" today.

i WILL TRY TO GET SOME PICTURES THIS WEEKEND.AND NO YOUR NO THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM MY SPARK PLUG IS ALMOST TOUCHING THE BOX ALSO .I CAN SLIDE MY BOX OVER ABOUT 3/4 OF AN INCH BUT IN ORDER TO MOVE IT MORE THAN THAT I AM GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE HOLE IN MY FIREWALL BIGGER

I put a newer truck (1975 3/4 ton) steering box ahead of the front axle and made a new link and pitman arm. Works very good and I now have power steering also,
Scott

Fellow up here has a 52 GMC with a 350 in it and original front end. He had no clearance problems but did notch the manifold a slight amount to clear. He fabricated his own motor mount from tubular steel and the motor sits a bit higher than you usually see. It is a nice install, very clean.

Haven't messed with this,but whats the chances of installing the manifolds upside down,and building your pipes with a "U"turn? I saw an old pickup several years back with a V-8 conversion set up this way.Sorry-can't remember the engine or make of truck-too many years ago;I was sorting out a cooling problem at the time and was only paying attention to the radiator.

There are a few solutions I can think of. One of which involves modifying an exhaust header on that side. Do you have room to cut the offending exhaust primary and use a J-bend to cut and weld a path around the steering box?

The other solution would be to move the steering box. You might have to do some inventive engineering. But if you look at a late-60's Chevy or GMC, the steering box is similar in design, but it's on the outside of the frame rail, actually IN the wheel well. I don't see why that wouldn't work on my '52 GMC. I've compared trucks side by side, and with minor modification, (which you're doing on your truck anyway), it could work. Look into Flaming River to get a U-joint for your steering shaft.

I put a '57 283 in my 55.1, used ram's horn and moved box over 2". When I did research 3 years ago, that is what I found was the standard. It works.
Buddy

Thanks for all of the suggestions! After talking to a bunch of people who have done this swap I've decided to change course and center the engine between the frame rails and buy one of those power steering kits that uses one of the later truck steering boxes. I really didn't want to space out the steering box and I tried moving the engine over but it looked really goofy to me.

If the exhaust manifold were the only problem I would have probably kept the stock steering and used a front dump manifold or a (reversed) right side manifold that comes up above the exhaust ports (like this one off a '95 camaro):

[img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1008868/95camaro.jpg[/img]

But like I said, even with NO exhaust manifold bolted on the spark plug hits the steering box.

I think the main problem is with the universal tubular engine mounts that all the catalog companies sell - with the "ears" of the tubular mount set in the C-frame rails you can really only move the engine up and down so much. If I were able to position the engine a little more up and a little more forward I think the spark plug would clear and then a forward dump exhaust manifold would have worked, but oh well. Live and learn.

Why not? Aside from fabricating your own motor mounts, I guess that would work. The spark plug hitting the steering box is a problem. You could use a shorty plug like Accel sells, which would give you an extra half inch, but that's still not very good.

I think with the kit you bought, I'd probably try to move the steering box. To the guy who moved their steering box 2", what modifications did you have to do to the steering system to accomodate that?

I have a set of manifolds from a 84 chevy with air and they are rear dump.if you would like a picture let me know

so just to confirm i have a stock 51 3100 that i pulled the 216 out of. I have a 305 and a 700r4 trans that i want in. So i should use ram horn or block hugger for headers and just space the steering box out 2 inches? This should work for me correct? Can anyone tell me a link on a new radiator for the same truck/setup? I would like to mount into the stock location

Do a search; this has been hashed over many times. You DO NOT have to move the steering box and you DO NOT have to offset the engine with a 265 exhaust manifold. If you do you did something wrong. For a good pictorial go to Kahoys post on 9-26-2015. He did it right.

Walker Radiator works a lot of swap meets. I think they are made by Champion. I have used one on a car an it has done very well. $200 bucks total for an aluminum delivered to my front door.....and comes with a very nice heavy radiator cap and overflow tube....bought it about a year ago. I'm almost sure they make a replacement for the AD pickup. There are other vendors.....just search radiators and get hours of reading!

I found it. Now is there a header i can get better flow with and still not modify the steer gear box relocation? Will that 265 header work on my SBC 305?

The 265 header should be just fine for your 305. Folks waste a lot of money and gain very very little by way of performance unless you have a lot of "goodies" in an engine. You might gain one or two horses at best.... just my opinion and experience. Use what works and move on......you will also have a lot less, probably no problem at all, which regular exhaust headers.

Improved exhaust flow with headers is a myth- - - - -UNLESS you go with a very expensive custom designed setup with equal length tubes from every exhaust port, and the tube length will only benefit performance at one specific RPM range. Generally, the longer the tube, the better the low-end torque will be. A tractor pull engine I built with a Dodge 440 needed header tubes 8 feet long to get the best pull off the line, going into a 6" diameter collector. 30-something years of dyno run documentation of that, accumulated by my father and I, got destroyed when an assistant principal at the high school where we both taught decided to discard a filing cabinet full of old shop records. He didn't like my opinion of his ancestry after that episode, which included references to a bunch of dogs and frogs!
Jerry

Don’t let this detract from the seasoned advice from others. I’m sure it is sounds.

Last year, I bought some parts off a guy who was building an AD truck with an actual 265 V8. It definitely interfered with steering column (he moved the column and it was still tight) and now I wonder why.

Could it be that he had engine positioned too far to the rear?

I wonder if he had the original exhaust manifolds on that 265? The ones some of us oldtimers are talking about had the outlet at the front of the driver's side manifold, not like the rams' horns, etc.
Jerry

Gotcha. Yes, I bet that was it. If memory serves, it had the rams horn style.

The OEM part (casting) numbers for those manifolds is 3704791 and 92. There's a pair for sale on Ebay today for $139.00. Search "Chevy 265 exhaust manifold". The difference is that one of them has a generator bracket mounting boss. Either one will fit on the driver's side head depending on whether or not you want to hang some sort of bracket on it. It works, and the price certainly beats some sort of eye candy that will burn plug wires and turn your under-hood area into a pizza oven!
Jerry

My first 50 3600 had a V8 in it when I got it. The seller said it was a 307 but I never confirmed that. The street side manifold exited at the rear then down 45* . The curbside manifold exited mostly straight down between 6 and 8. (Or is 5 and 7?) And the steering box was moved outboard about 1 1/2" with a custom mount/bracket. But it was still tight between the steering box and manifold. At the time I guessed they manifolds from a 305, but I don't know. Home made side motor mounts were welded to the frame, and a cast iron bellhousing was used that mounts to the crossmember. Looking back now it must have had the original crossmember replaced with one from a 54-55.1 truck with the sloping mounting surfaces. Behind that was the original SM-420 and 2-piece driveshaft.

Hi hotrod lincoln, I have a question: do you think these kits that move the steering box to the outside of the frame and upgrade to power steering are a good way to solve this issue?Or would they dramatically change the drag link location and potentially increase bump steer?

Funny that this thread just became renewed. But my small block 350 that I dropped in. With 265 Corvette log Style exhaust manifolds. I still had to space my steering gear over. Yes the engine is centered in the engine bay. But still had to move the steering gear with the stock Corvette manifolds. And don't tell me it was installed incorrectly because it's 100% correct. Transmission is straight. And it lines up perfectly straight with the rear axle

Does that mean you have to move the whole steering column and steering wheel too? Like you have to scoot close to the door to drive your truck? I don’t think I’d like that.

No, I had to loosen the bolts where the steering column bolts to the dash and slide it over. I also had to notch the firewall a little bit as well. It does not change the position of the steering wheel at all. Basically you're using an inch and a half spacer on the steering gear itself. After doing that I also took my brand new drag link and cut it in half. I reindexed it 180° so the the drag link was much more of a 90 degree angle to the steering knuckle rather than a 60 degree angle. Brought it back to more of factory steering geometry dimensions

I guess I don’t know what the original column looked like so it’s confusing to me. It seems if you have to slide the column over an inch then your steering wheel would move too. Mine is super wonky. At least 4 inches over. My grandpa did it 40 years ago. I can’t leave it like this.

It is said that you can use stock 265 V8 exhaust manifolds mounting the passenger side backwards on the drivers side and getting creative with the pipe. Someone will slap my wrist if I’m wrong!

These are the exact cast manifolds that I have. And yes, still had to space steering gear over

UWell, currently I have a 390 Cadillac. I think my options are more limited.

Well, that would have been good info to know up front.