The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Highest Mileage 216 Engines

Inquiring minds want to know! How many miles would a working 216 engine go back when they and there big brothers (poured babbitt bearing engines) were the nations work horses. They carried the countries supplies, plumbers, livestock and everything else down the road and had to accumulate a lot of miles. But how many before a major or minor overhaul, was it 75k, 100k....more?

My suspicion is that on paved roads making many miles between stops they lasted a lot longer than the normal country or city truck that drove gravel and dirt roads with stops every few miles, sometimes likely not getting up to operation temp before being shut down.

So, any high mileage stories? If so what was done, valve jobs, ring jobs, pull bearing shims......or just change/add oil and keep em rolling.

RonR

OK I'll play.
I have a 49 3100 w/it's original 216 still alive and ticking. I know it's history fairly well. I'm the 3rd owner (the 2nd owner was the original owners teenaged great grandaughter who inherited it, never sat in it and sold it to me).
It was parked in the dry in 69 with 99445 miles on it. It sat in the dry and never started or run until I bought it in 2012.
Pulled the head and had it rebuilt. Dropped the pan and discovered all the shims had already been removed and the mains and rods plastigaged out to avg 0.003" . Rebuilt the Roch B, replaced the fuel pump, gas tank, all fuel and brake lines, master and wheel cyls, rebuilt the exhaust, tuned it up and it's been running since. I've put around 21500 miles on it since I got it running. It weeps oil out of every seal and gasket, has such low compression that I can easily spin it with the plugs in but it starts, runs, has ample enough power to drive in traffic, climb hills and occasionally pass slower vehicles. I take it out every Sat (weather permitting) for it's usual 60-75 mile cruise and errand runs. It rarely does short runs without the long cruise. Avg speed is 40-45 with occasional runs at 55 and the rarer run up to 65 to pass.
Since it was a farm truck the body needs attention and theres a freshly rebuilt 235 awaiting it's turn to power the truck but the 216 just keeps on ticking.
By this reckoning it has approx 120K miles on it and it still going.

My position is that if you drove 216 under average conditions for 75,000 miles without dropping the oil pan and pulling some shims from main and rod bearing to restore proper oil clearance, you would probably see some irreparable damage to the crankshaft and connecting rods. This procedure was a regularly scheduled event for babbitt pounders way before the 75,000 mile mark.

Amen, hallelujah, and praise the Carl - I reckin my well-maintained 1960 261 school bus engine had 100,000-200,000 miles on it when I got it in 1972 (it had been sitting in Leon's Auto Parts for several years). It's was a well-maintained engine and its main bearings were bored 0.060. I bet it had been "rebuilt" at least 3 times (in regularly scheduled maintenance).

Purchased 52 half ton from the original owners son in 1996. Truck was/is well taken care of and was stored in an enclosed barn under a tarp for 17 years. Truck had 96k miles when I purchase it and the owner stated that the only thing done to the engine other than normal maintenance was adjusting the valves. Today it has 112k miles, runs extremely well with very, very little oil usage with great oil pressure. Engine runs quite with typical top engine noise for a 216. That said, I do tend to baby it with weekly drives with speeds 45 or below. In the gallery.

Nice, and, thanks, papas52

If it had the oil changed every 3,000 miles and valves adjusted (and, carburetor/timing adjusted) as often, what you describe is possible (and, admirable).

My experience has been that in the era of the 216 most engines needed "refreshed" by 50K and a complete rebuild by 75K. Many, if not most, were in the junk yard by 100K. As always you will find exceptions to that but that's been my experience. Today's oils will extend those miles dramatically.

Only 1of the 3 A-D pickups I have owned had a working speedometer or odometer. And it was a 50 3/4 ton with a V8 swap. So who knows? My last Chevy was also a 50 3/4 ton with probably the original 216 and 67000 +/- on the clock. But it sat for 27? years before I got it and needed lots of work to get back on the road. I drove it and had fun with it for 5+ years and never had the head off of it. So this doesn't really answer your question. Sorry. ☺

As most would guess and as I was advised, the majority of our trucks didn't run up high miles without high maintenance/refresh work being performed.

I was hoping to hear from a truck driver (or the son-of) that made delivers involving long distance driving when 216 engines were new. Of course those drivers would likely be in their late 80's or 90's now.

My suspicion is that back in the 40's and 50's just as today, trucks that stayed on the road with infrequent stops and starts racked up a lot of miles with minimal wear. I do know that today's 1 ton and 3/4 ton pickups used by hot shotters and rv transporters can rack up a half million miles plus with routine maintenance and tires (if they use common sense on which loads they take and don't gut em all the time). The same truck that might see 700,000 miles working could well be worn out or need a lot of work at 200k if those miles were racked up doing light duty service around the home place.

Class 8 trucks and 1,000,000 mile engines are common, but that has LITTLE to do with pickups other than support the fact that it's the way miles rack more than how many miles.

Back when I was young and buying cars from the junk yard, 216s were in the junkyard with as little as 25000 miles on them. If they had 50000 miles on them they were almost junk. The oil that you put in them was pretty much pumped out of the well and ran through a strainer and put in the cars with not much more processing. The engines were packed full of paraffin from the oils and overheated often. With modern oils with their additives, I can see where they would hold up just like any modern engine if not abused. Tiny must have lived in a better area than I did. Dirt and dust from farm work payed a toll with non detergent oils.

"My suspicion is that back in the 40's and 50's just as today, trucks that stayed on the road with infrequent stops and starts racked up a lot of miles with minimal wear. "

In the 40s and 50s (and most of the 60s) there were no Interstate highways. Most small trucks did a lot of start/stop (up-shifting and down-shifting) driving on winding roads and "crowned" roads. There was significant wear and tear on engines, drive-trains, brakes, wheel bearings and suspensions (compare to average driving conditions/roads today).

Yep, totally agree on the condition of the roads in the 50's. I well recall the tree tunnels we drove through when I was a boy. Even today the paved roads in my part of the world are exactly as you describe for the 40's/50s. The current interstate system wasn't complete in Arkansas when I started driving in the sixties and I'm still not sure if I like the "improvement" it brought. about.

I'm in my 80's and had a friend that hauled steel out of Pennsylvania to Texas with a 46 Chevy tractor trailer rig. It had the Babbitt bearings 235 which is the same system as the 216. He was an absolute stickler for maintenance and said he once got 70k miles before overhauling. Most I had experience with needed attention by 55-60k. These engines had huge (by today's standard) tolerances, heavy pistons, cast iron rings, limited upper end lubrication. very soft bearings---all the things one would put in an engine that today was designed for a limited and short life. That said; these trucks, hand cranked tractors, hand saws, pencils and papers, and all else of that era won the big war for us and built our homes and highways. They were great for then but one can't compare them to the 250-300K Crown Vics the police used for years---apples to oranges.

mine had just over 30K and self destructed because the last owner did not keep an eye on the bottom end.

A 216 will last a longer under today's conditions, given that dusty dirt roads are scarce, greatly slowing down the rate of dirt being sucked into engine at the valve cover, powered by the downdraft tube.
Today's oil is much improved, as well as the consistency and quality of gasoline.

Evan, thanks for your comments. Back when I was a kid in the 50's/60's it was accepted fact that if a vehicle had 100,000 miles it was WORN out (because it was) . However a family friend in the 50's delivered bundles of the Arkansas Democrat newspaper from Little Rock to surrounding towns every morning. He'd buy a new truck every 2 years at the 100k mark. Everyone was amazed that he got that many miles out of a rig with very few problems and it still looked almost new.

Sadly he was a Ford guy. I started this thread hoping for similar stories from the Stovebolt crowd. At this point I'm hollering Uncle since it looks like it didn't happen with our babbitt babies.

RonR

All the auto's, Ford, Chevy, dodge, Desoto,Studebaker,Pontiac, etc had the same junk yard rate in those days. There was no magic long lasting brand. Babbitt is soft, but can last very long if cared for. There are stories from different people of that one guy who managed to eke out high mileage from their vehicle. But on average, mechanically they were on par with each other. Using the same oil and about the same maintenance practices. I know a couple old guys that had their vehicles last 40 years without an overhaul, and they still looked like new when they died. They changed oil when it looked the least bit discolored. Wiped every spot off the tires, never took them out of the garage/ barn unless it was nice out side. Most people were living hand to mouth back then and a auto/truck was needed to eat. They drove them, and cared for them when they could. Ran bulk oil out of the quart jar at the local filling station, and wore them out rather quickly. They were cheap (relatively) to buy and served a purpose. Most Every old car and truck you see on the road today, was at least pretty well cared for and lasted well. The 53 I have has never been overhauled that I'm aware of, it has 50000 miles +. The spare 216 I have, I just went through this summer and its been overhauled twice. The way to high mileage is to baby it, change oil even if it doesn't need it, and keep it clean. Give me any make car or truck, and I can make it last longer than I can live.

The house I lived in and the food I ate in the 1950's and 60's was paid for by my father keeping these old cars and trucks running. The average stovebolt engine back then needed a valve job about every 30K miles, usually got its first "in the frame overhaul" (piston rings, adjust the bearing clearance, and maybe a second valve job) at around 50K, and if it managed to make it to 75K it was time to pull the engine, rebore the cylinders, regrind the crankshaft, install rings, rod and main bearings and grind the valves again. Valve guides, cam and lifters, and a few other long-life parts might get replaced, of maybe not, depending on how well preventive maintenance was done.

When PCV ventilation systems became popular and/or required to meet air pollution standards in the late 1960's, an added benefit was an approximate doubling of expected engine life because dust and dirt contamination of the crankcase got drastically reduced by the closed ventilation system and the elimination of the road draft tube.

The old adage I heard a lot was "A Ford breaks down- - - - a Chevy wears out!" That was particularly true about transmissions and rear ends.
Jerry

HMMMM, the old adage I always heard was " buy a Ford and go to dinner in style, Buy a chevy to tow you home." Particularly true about flywheel breaking and tappets falling off. LOL

Well, I count 2ea 216's in this thread that claim over 100k and still working.
With the odometer showing 99445 (from post #2) and this service sticker showing 99007, thats at the least up there with that Ford LOL.
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/PK86BGFb4p50RmF23[/img]

Dave

My 51 1-ton was working on its second engine when I got it in '71. The odometer showed in the high nineties. The engine, a 48 babbitt beater 235, was built with care by my buddy's grandfather who was a machinist at Pacific Car and Foundry (KW) in Renton, WA and bought the truck new. He drove it 25 miles to work every day. When I got it the 235 needed a valve job and the rods knocked. By '73 I'd pulled a full pressure 235 out of another truck I had and rebuilt that. It's in the same 51 1-ton and is still running today with about 180K on the clock, though a year ago last fall I put all new bearings in it -- badly needed but it didn't knock. Amazing the difference full pressure oil and high quality oil makes. Also there's not much dust here but plenty of mud.

I bought a 235 from a gentleman that was planning a move to Florida. Ironically enough, his son was a family friend unbeknownst to me at the time. Anyhow, I got the history of the engine. It was in a 59 El Camino as a high school driver. The engine then made it into a Biscayne, where it was a daily driver for the next 15-20 years. By the time it made it to me, it was 100% worn out. The son claimed it probably had 200k on it. My best guess is 100k+.

When I was a kid in the late '50's, My favorite hang out was the local garage run by a classmate's dad. The average customer's car would be late 40's' or early '50's. To keep them dependable enough to start on every cold morning and get you to and from work as well as everyday errands, he often did valve jobs every 40,000 miles and major overhauls around 60 or 70 along with the second valve job. Tune-ups came much more often. Side note: His shop was heated by a pot-belly coal stove. an elevated tank with a small copper line let used oil drip very slowly on the coal which mad one fill last all day.

I believe you, redwing, especially since your Dad's average customer probably followed these maintenance schedules:

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyowner/51om28.htm

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyowner/52om27.htm

You are all making a convincing case for a valve job on my 50,000 mile 216. Yes it's had a slight but noticeable (to usually only me at low speed, as in while idling) miss that I've sorta ignored.

In a bit under 10,000 miles of driving over the past 3 years I've adjusted the valves a couple times, new plugs, points and set the timing and it runs fine down the road. Guess that's why I've been putting off the inevitable.

I've always recognized that I need to pull the head and see what's what. Hopefully new seats won't be required, but it'll be a whatever it needs project when I get to that page. It should make it to the top of the project list in a couple months.

Have you checked the compression (and, what technique did you use)?

No, (hangs head in shame and makes figure eights in the dirt with the toe of his greasy lace up boot). I have no good reason for not doing one either, got a good compression gauge and nice dry shop to work in. Other than laziness my only defense is I've always been of the opinion that it's a burnt valve causing the low speed miss. I will definitely do a proper wet and dry compression test before pulling the head thought. I've got a screw in air chuck made from an old spark plug that I may breakout just to see if I can hear a air leak out the exhaust pipe when I get into things in a serious way.

One last bit of defense, in my later years I've developed the mindset that I'd rather drive it than work on it. But also recognize if you want to dance, you gotta pay the fiddler.

Your honestly/candor is impressive.

And, I understand your laziness&defense, and especially your one last bit of defense.

Let us know what technique you use, and your results.

Thanks,