Found some more pictures of the bus. Not the ones of the data plates or engine, but some of when we found it in its previous location, some of us unloading it at the farm, and one of Dr. J with his dad's bus. Wanted to share!
Major breakthrough. I was able to get in touch with neighbor at the farm and he snapped a few pictures for me. Hopefully these will help identify what specific parts i need to order without taking the wheels apart. He did say he will go back tomorrow and get pictures of the axle and Brake area for me.
The pieces of the puzzle is coming together. I'm sure someone will come along, other than me, and help you decipher those numbers.......oh, and one has to like those "slanted" windows. Kind of like the Nomad Wagons. Perhaps there is a name in those words?
The pieces of the puzzle is coming together. I'm sure someone will come along, other than me, and help you decipher those numbers.......oh, and one has to like those "slanted" windows. Kind of like the Nomad Wagons. Perhaps there is a name in those words?
yeah, hopefully so. Me trying to decode that VIN tag on the firewall didn't work out quite so easy. It isn't matching up to the decoder I found. hmm......
With the tag showing a 21,000 lbs gvw that means it's an S-69 model. That matches the 261.5 inch wheelbase shown on the tag. It also makes it have the 7,000 lbs front axle and 7,000 lb front spring capacity. The rear axle capacity is 15,000 lbs and rear spring capacity is 17,500 lbs. all of which look to be the largest in the Bus models.
This still doesn't match up with the VIN decoder on the chevy60.com site. Please educate me if I'm wrong.
S = School Bus Chassis 6 = 2 ton 9 = 261" wb 2 = School Bus/Flat Face Cowl 6 = Year (1966) F = Flint 149507 = Unit number
For engine tune up parts, any 1966 Chevy 327 parts (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, condenser and points) will fit, they are all the same.
Looks like a GM 15,000# rear which was standard issue for the 21,000 gvw bus.
The SM-420 4-speed was standard issue transmission with a 13" clutch, but you could have a New Process 4-speed as well as Clark and Spicer 5-speeds or the Powermatic (Allison Automatic).
S = School Bus Chassis 6 = 2 ton 9 = 261" wb 2 = School Bus/Flat Face Cowl 6 = Year (1966) F = Flint 149507 = Unit number
For engine tune up parts, any 1966 Chevy 327 parts (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, condenser and points) will fit, they are all the same.
Looks like a GM 15,000# rear which was standard issue for the 21,000 gvw bus.
The SM-420 4-speed was standard issue transmission with a 13" clutch, but you could have a New Process 4-speed as well as Clark and Spicer 5-speeds or the Powermatic (Allison Automatic).
Mike B
Oh wow. Thank you so much Mike. I can ask for specific pics of shifter if that'll help with the tranny identification. Not sure if that really matters though at this point since I'm just trying to get it running and stopping right now.
Does this info help at all when trying to determine what size brakes and what braking system it has? That is what I'm having a hard time finding parts for.
Hy Joiner Transit, I have a couple of part numbers for you, your front wheel cylinders should be Napa p/n UP8852 and UP8853 $28.49 each, rear wheel cylinders should be Napa p/n UP18197 $33.99 2 per side. If I am correct the rear brake crossover line is inside the brake drum, this crossover line has nuts which have a special pitch, if you must replace/rebuild this line you must reuse the old nuts.
Hy Joiner Transit, I have a couple of part numbers for you, your front wheel cylinders should be Napa p/n UP8852 and UP8853 $28.49 each, rear wheel cylinders should be Napa p/n UP18197 $33.99 2 per side. If I am correct the rear brake crossover line is inside the brake drum, this crossover line has nuts which have a special pitch, if you must replace/rebuild this line you must reuse the old nuts.
That is great information!! I don't know how to thank you! When remaking that line do I need to use a particular flare? I'm guessing you're talking about a hard line from center across axle?
Hy Joiner Transit, I am talking about the line which goes from one rear wheel cylinder to the other rear wheel cylinder inside the brake drum, Bendix brakes have this line inside the drum, on Wagner brakes this line is on the outside of the backing plate and uses standard pitch brake line nuts. Could you have someone measure the length of your front brake hoses, with that information I could provide you a part number for the rubber flex lines. You will need a flaring tool that is capable of making double flares. Hope that helps.
Hy Joiner Transit, I am talking about the line which goes from one rear wheel cylinder to the other rear wheel cylinder inside the brake drum, Bendix brakes have this line inside the drum, on Wagner brakes this line is on the outside of the backing plate and uses standard pitch brake line nuts. Could you have someone measure the length of your front brake hoses, with that information I could provide you a part number for the rubber flex lines. You will need a flaring tool that is capable of making double flares. Hope that helps.
I hate to ask the neighbor to crawl around under it measuring stuff. He is generous enough to deuce a few miles up there and get the pictures. Know what I mean? Are those lines something that might be commonly in stock? Or I could have napa order them and have on hand if I knew which ones I had to pick from.
Also, by knowing what the wheel cylinder parts are, would that tell us what size brake drum, brake shoe, and Brake spring would be required? Or are there still several sizes it could possibly be? Same thing with the brake parts at the front of the bus (the master cylinder brake booster, and anything else I didn't think of )
Hy Joiner Transit, I found some more numbers for you, brake hoses, front Napa p/n UP36697 $16.99, rear p/n UP36563 $12.99, master cylinder p/n NMC P34956 $114.00. Hope that helps.
Hy Joiner Transit, I found some more numbers for you, brake hoses, front Napa p/n UP36697 $16.99, rear p/n UP36563 $12.99, master cylinder p/n NMC P34956 $114.00. Hope that helps.
Man....that helps a ton!! Why about the brake booster? I'm sure I'll need a new one of those!
Gosh, I haven't even thought about asking about the clutch. I'm used to working on small Farmall tractors with a plain dry friction clutch and if the linkage is hooked up it works. Do you think the clutch will need anything to be able to operate it? Is it a Hydraulic powered clutch?
Hy Joiner Transit, yes the clutch is a hydraulically activated one, the master cylinder p/n I provided is a dual one, one reservoir for the brakes one for the clutch. The book I have been researching in does not reference the brake booster, I hope there is a tag on the clamp bolt to give us a part number, hope that helps.
Hy Joiner Transit, yes the clutch is a hydraulically activated one, the master cylinder p/n I provided is a dual one, one reservoir for the brakes one for the clutch. The book I have been researching in does not reference the brake booster, I hope there is a tag on the clamp bolt to give us a part number, hope that helps.
So are you saying I need specific pictures of Brake booster? Hmm....surely no more than 2 different ones were offered. I could get napa to order both. Haha
Check with your NAPA dealer about having them order parts in that they don't normally stock just for you to sample. They may say NO because the parts are no longer stocked at their main warehouse (free shipping for them on a almost daily basis) and they have to pay to have then shipped direct from the manufacturer at your cost.
Don't forget to get enough brake line (size???) to do the clutch line as well and get a new clutch Slave Cylinder (Chevy p/n 5460668 (7-25/32" O.L.). Mike B
I was going to get (2)25 foot rolls of 5/16" steel line for the brakes and the clutch. If you think I need more let me know. I haven't checked the size yet, but I presume it's 5/16".
The dual master cylinder doesn't take care of that, or is that the part at the clutch pedal? Forgive me as I'm not used to working on Hydraulic clutches and brakes
Intresting, I'll have to check that out. Does McMaster Carr sell it? Since I'm buying a bunch I figured I could get it from them in 25 foot rolls.I'm also not wanting to spend a ton of money on the tubing so the cheaper the better (as long as it will work).
The copper nickle alloy brake line link provided earlier shows 25', 50', and 100' rolls and the part numbers for each. I suggest searching for those part numbers on ebay, that's where I've seen the best prices. Otherwise NAPA and most all the other auto parts stores sell it, and most use the same part numbers. All from same manufacturer, again linked above.
The copper nickle alloy brake line link provided earlier shows 25', 50', and 100' rolls and the part numbers for each. I suggest searching for those part numbers on ebay, that's where I've seen the best prices. Otherwise NAPA and most all the other auto parts stores sell it, and most use the same part numbers. All from same manufacturer, again linked above.
Thank you for the input Grigg. I actually just looked on eBay and saw that line. The prices aren't bad.........just gotta figure out what size(s) I need for the clutch, fuel, and brakes.
Yes, the wheels would most definitely be changed out and replaced. For now I hope it would be ok to put a LITTLE air in the low tires (just enough to set them up) and leave them on for now to just roll around until we decide what we are going to do with it after we get it going and analyze it. I know there are precautions to even airing them up, but would you think it is very dangerous/advised against for putting a little bit of air so they aren't sitting on the ground. I mean.....think of how many people who wouldn't know what the rims are that would just simply air them up and move on. We were going to before we loaded it on the trailer but the air hose wouldn't reach. Is it dangerous to even remove the wheels/tires to service the brakes? I could even air them up with them off the bus so no pressure is on there.
Having a little trouble at Napa with parts. They are saying that a 327 was not available in 1966 unless it was in a Chevelle. They are looking in an old book for older big vehicles.Also, I've asked about the oil filter, carburetor kit, air filter, and fan/drive belt; and they are not showing listings for any of that. I still need to ask about all tune-up / ignition parts. From the pictures I've provided, does the engine seem to actually be a 327 v8 ? I was under the impression it is.
Hy Joiner Transit, I was just looking at some of your pictures, I think I am seeing a rear brake crossover line on the outside of the backing plate. If that truly is the case the part numbers I gave you for the rear brake wheel cylinders would be wrong. The possibility of parts swapping on a truck that is over fifty years old is always a concern, we must know what parts are on the truck in order to obtain the correct replacement parts.
Hy Joiner Transit, I was just looking at some of your pictures, I think I am seeing a rear brake crossover line on the outside of the backing plate. If that truly is the case the part numbers I gave you for the rear brake wheel cylinders would be wrong. The possibility of parts swapping on a truck that is over fifty years old is always a concern, we must know what parts are on the truck in order to obtain the correct replacement parts.
That is totally understood. Is that out of the ordinary for a 1966 S-69 to have that since you thought it should be the other style, or are you meaning by parts swapping meaning swapping the rear axle at some point? What are the part numbers if it were the other style?
Hi Joiner, The issue with the RH5 wheels is that the ring can come off not just during the process of airing them up, but even after they are aired up. You have no idea what kind of shape the inside of the wheel is in, and if you air them up, they could blow the ring off while you are putting them on the vehicle, or even as you are loading it up on a trailer or walking by it. There is a reason they were dubbed "widow maker" rims.
That said, once on the vehicle, the inner rears and the front wheels, if they blow, the ring will blow into the wheel well and screw up something in there, but not hit you.
Bottom line is, those rims are dangerous, and nobody on here is going to tell you it is safe to put even a little air in them and you will be fine.
I have a pair here, sitting alongside my shop, still have tires mounted that look pretty good BUT, I took the valve stems out before I took them off the rig and will never put them back in!
IMPORTANT! NO TIRE ON A SECTIONAL WHEEL, REGARDLESS OF DESIGN, THAT IS NOTICEABLY LOW OR FLAT SHOULD EVER HAVE AIR ADDED TO TRY TO REINFLATE IT!
There is just too much of a possibility of parts coming loose and allowing sections of the wheel to go flying. Sometime when you've got a little time to play with a calculator, figure the number of square inches in a tire's sidewall, then multiply that by the pounds per square inch of pressure in the tire. Even 20 pounds of pressure on a big tire equals several TONS of pressure pushing against the bead ring. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thank you all for your concern and information regarding these wheels. I will excercise caution when around them and knowing I need to get them off to even remove the parts for the brakes to at least order parts; I will have to figure that out and excercise caution when doing so. Does anyone know the lug pattern off-hand becuase I know I have a BUNCH of mounted tires and wheels at MY FARM nearby that would possibly fit.
They were removed from old vehicles probably of the same era by my grandfather about 20 years ago when he would scrap them. Not saying those are the 2 piece rims either but I can take pictures and check it out. That would hopefully at least get me by so I'm able to work on it and get the bus going to further analyze.
I will say that I will have log chains to wrap the tires and rims when removing them to service the brakes or change them out in general. That way if anything blows loose it will hopefully make it a little safer.
1960-66 Ser 50-60....(8-3/4" dia. bolt circle, 6-1/4" dia. pilot hole)...p/n 2395277
2395277 is a 2-piece riveted 20x6.5 wheel with a 6" offset....8.25x20, 10-12 ply; 9.00x20 10-12 ply tire size, tube type, 10 stud.
So, you need to look for 22.5" (Tubeless) 10-lug Hub Piloted rim with 8-3/4" dia. bolt circle and a 6-1/4" dia. pilot hole....p/n 3765587.
Note, ALL 22.5 rims are 1-piece Tubeless and ALL 20" rims are 2 or more piece Tube Type.
Mike B
Thanks for the info Mike. Can you explain what hub piloted is and what to look for with that? Is that where there is a center portion of the hub that sticks out and the rim fits into that and rests on it......then you have threaded lugs to fasten ?
Ok. So with that being said it doesn't have lug studs on the hub, but has threaded lug bolts (cap screws)
No, it'll still have lug studs, but the nuts only clamp the wheel to the hub, not locate it on center. Earlier links have descriptions and pictures of hub piloted and stud piloted wheels.
Griggs had given some good info previously but I wanted to check to see if any of you knew exactly what size the brake line, fuel line, and clutch line is on this bus so I can be sure to order enough for each and not too much or too little of one size or the other. Planning on buying in bulk rolls as suggested. Didn't know if y'all knew or if the parts manual called the sizes out.
joiner, all school districts have school buses and therefore a maintenance shop. I'd suggest driving by one of them one day and talk to the oldest looking mechanic you can find. I'm sure someone will have experience and can help. A 5 minute conversation may be well worth the time.....and/or find out what company made the chassis. Freightliner or some other and go from there......just some ideas that may pay some dividends.
.....Joe Hand, you reading this?? I think Joe works on the big buses but not sure.
