The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk 59 Chevy Ignition switch question

I am experiencing a problem in that my truck continues to run when I turn the switch off. I pulled the switch and tested the connections and continuity with a multimeter for each position of the key. There was continuity where there was supposed to be and none when there should be none. I replaced the switch then started the truck then turned the switch to "off" and it still kept running. So I measured the voltage still going to the HEI and it was just over 9 volts while the switch was off and the truck still running.

So, obviously 9 volts is enough to keep the coil firing but how is it doing so when the switch shows no continuity in the "off" position?

I disassembled the switch to look inside to see if there were any broken bits inside. There were none and it really looked fine. Before I buy a new switch does anyone have any more troubleshooting recommendations for me. Or is it an obvious problem with the switch? Or is there some other way the voltage is crossing over. I really don't have a complete understanding auto electrical systems but I know this does not make sense to me.
Thanks, Gene

Alternators can sometimes provide enough voltage, HRL or someone else will speak up on how to use diodes to stop the flow.

Ed

Rig it up so that YOU are the switch. Let switch hang down, Pull the run wire off switch and see if motor stops. If not, it ain't the switch. The coil is picking up voltage somewhere else. How many hot wires to coil/HEI?????
Assuming the run wire from the run position is going to the coil and assuming the start position on the switch has a wire to the starter. Need to know what type starter you have. Solenoid or foot stomp. Did this happen out of the blue or were you tinkering???? "rewiring" something? Replaced something? Come clean now, give it up! Still have a ballast resistor (white ceramic block on firewall) hooked up?

Continuity is a good check BUT if you have 9 volts with the key off, follow the 9 volts backwards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..to the source. Key off.

Remember, all a switch does is touch things together......whenever in doubt about a switch, disconnect it and touch the stuff together yourself. No need to take switches apart until you prove it is the switch. They can act intermittent and fool a continuity test and/or the minute current in a continuity test is not enough to find bad switch contact engagement.

This trouble is often caused by a misunderstanding of the contacts on back of switch especially regarding: IGN 1 and IGN 2 assuming you have an original style switch.

nothing to do with the ignition switch, as Ed says, it's your miswired alternator, you need a DA plug

Bill

Gene,

If the Alt turns out OK you might have a solenoid issue...

Your starter solenoid has a wire going from it (terminal "R") to the coil or coil side of the ballast resistor. This wire puts full battery voltage to the coil when starting the engine. If the contact in the solenoid is shorted to the Battery + terminal it will provide voltage when the switch is off. The "S" terminal on the solenoid comes from the ignition switch to energize the starter solenoid and start the starter. I'd start the truck and turn the key off and see if you have voltage with a test light on terminal "R" at the starter solenoid. If you do remove that wire and see if the truck stops. If it stops you have a bad solenoid...

What steps are you doing to actually turn the truck off since the key won't do it?

Mike B

Should be no ballast or bypass circuit with HEI.

I would check what Mike B says. If you did put an alternator on it, it coul very well be feeding back through the alternator, just pull out the little plug and see if it turns off. If it does you need a diode in the line or just a small idiot light and that solve the problem.

So far I have been putting the truck in gear, applying the brake and then releasing the clutch to choke it down.

I will take a look at the alternator plug and see if that turns it off. Then try the solenoid. The truck not turning off is a new problem and I don't recall changing anything electrically that would have caused it. This truck has been draining the battery since I got in 2015. My ultimate goal is to figure out what is causing that but the switch issue is fairly new.

Keep us updated with what you find. My 54 is doing the same thing. I haven't tried to chase down the cause yet, but will update as well.

I disconnected the plug at the alternator while switch was in the off position. That did not turn the engine off. So I tried what Mike suggested, test the solenoid post on the back of the switch to see if it had power. It showed no voltage. I would love to get this sorted out. Anything else to try?

The triangular large connector that connects to the 3 center posts on the back of the switch has 4 wires. Red, which is the hot from where the battery connects to the back of the starter. Purple which I think is the solenoid. And the third connector goes to IGN has 2 wires in it. A pink small wire that goes straight to to fuel gauge and a larger brown wire that is the source of the residual voltage (~10v). I don't have a wiring diagram. Does any one know where this brown wire goes. If not I will have to start until wrapping wires.

the brown wire originally would have gone to one side of the ignition resistor [if you have one, maybe the other side goes to the wrong place] .... if you don't have a shop manual, big truck wiring diagram here from 57 should be the same to 59

Bill

Thank you, Flxible. I checked the wiring diagram and as Flxible said the brown wire that was carrying that residual voltage was connected at the top terminal of the resistor on the firewall. I disconnected it and started the truck then switched it off and.... It shut off! Just as it should. Now my follow-up question is, what is going on at that resistor? Did it go bad? Is it necessary? The bottom terminal of the resistor has 2 green wires. One to the temp sender and the other to the coil which is no longer there. Also there were actually 2 brown wires at the top terminal and the diagram only shows 1. Will there be any downstream consequences to just disconnecting the brown wires from the resistor or do the green wires on the other side of the resistor need that voltage so the temp sender functions properly. Thanks again to everyone for helping me with this.

if you have an HEI, the resistor is not needed, someone is using it as a junction block, so you need to find where the other brown goes [maybe eliminating it], and discard the 2 green - there should be NO hot power lead to the temp sender, the sender is a variable ground with the power going to the actual gauge, the wire on the sender should go right to one side of the gauge

Bill

Bartamos, all of your initial points were accurate, thank you. However, please excuse my ignorance but in your first quote above, highlighted in red you mention ign1 and ign2. I am not sure what ign1 and ign2 are. I am guessing you are talking about the posts on the back of the switch. The difference is that on my switch it says IGN and SOL. It is hard to misunderstand those labels. Am I misunderstanding?

Also, regarding your second quote, can you please explain to me what are you referring to as "ballast or bypass circuit". Is that the resistor on the firewall? As I am sure you have surmised I am no genius on these matters and I do appreciate your insight.

Is the resistor of any use at all in this case since it has an HEI?
Gene

Thanks Flxible you answered my question while I was replying to Bartomos.
Gene

Your ignition may or may not be original. It sounds, like you said, it will be fairly simple.
The problem is, I don't know if you have what is called a "one wire" alternator hookup or a "three wire". I will give the three wire version. Maybe you can describe all the wires you see coming off the alternator. I DO NOT CARE WHAT COLORS you have. DO NOT focus on colors, focus on how it's hooked up from one end to the other. Colors get changed by previous owners.

Some alternator are NOT designed for one wire. If you have only one big wire to alternator, you have a one wire. If you have the "1" and "2" connection also hooked up, you have a three wire. I am assuming you DO NOT have a separate voltage regulator. You must advise these things to get proper advise.

So, You have a big gauge wire from battery to the positive lug on alternator. That wire can come from the starter lug or direct from battery post. There is a smaller jumper wire from that alternator positive lug to alternator terminal marked "2". Then you have a wire from alternator terminal marked "1" to the ignition switch "ON" terminal or to a idiot light bulb, thru bulb to Ign ON terminal.
You have a wire from ignition "SOL" or "START" terminal to solenoid "S". "R" on solenoid may or may not be hooked up....and of course a big wire from battery to starter lug ("BATT"). You will have a direct power wire to your ignition switch "batt" terminal. This wire should have a fusible link inline to act as a fuse.
Take off the white ceramic ballast resistor you found and put it in a drawer.
I do not know what fuse panel you have, old or new, so I can't go further with the rest of your wiring of lights and all that. Basically the ignition "ON" also has a wire to the fuse panel to "turn it on" and supply power, thru fuses, to various components. The headlight switch has a direct battery wire also, to distribute to all the lights.

Any wire you disconnect during this, just tape over the end until you find out if they were need or not. You may have to break down and open up your harness and redress it.
You may want to read all you can about general wiring. We all knew nothing at one point. Everything is fused. Everything has a switch. Components get a hot wire to them (thru a switch) and are ground by their screws or bolts or by touching the chassis or body or motor. The entire truck is the return line to the battery negative post. Provided you have a cable from battery negative to motor and; flexible braid straps from motor to body and from body to frame.

Bartamos, I will check those wires and connections tomorrow. For the record, this truck does not have a fuse panel. There is a fuse shown in the head light switch diagram but no panel.

Thanks for your help
Gene

Yes, I forgot, that was a option somewhere around then as Bill has pointed out previously. Do you have a Voltage Regulator? If so, my remarks are mostly unusable. I now suspect you do have one. Maybe it's been bypassed? Check it. That will determine if you have a built in VR in alternator or not. (si10 si12)

If you have HEI ignition, it needs a heavier than normal 12 volt plus wire to feed it.

Ed

Hy Gene_Spatan80, the second wire on the ballast resistor terminal with the brown wire from the ignition switch is either going to the power terminal of you H.E.I. distributor or is going to your electric windshield wiper motor, that is where the factory put it. On three wire alternators on trucks that no longer require the ballast resister I wire the alternator excitation wire to the "R" terminal of the solenoid on the starter, this will turn on the alternator while the engine is being cranked to start and you don't need a diode and the truck will shut off when you turn the ignition switch to the off position, hope that helps.

Ed reminded me. I did forget to mention a wire from ignition ON to HEI positive. I'm pretty sure you have that already.
ALSO: If your ignition switch shuts off the "ON" terminal when it's at start position, then you do need a wire from solenoid "R" to HEI positive also. Probably confused the whole issue now.

I installed the HEI distributor. it has a larger red wire and a green wire that clips into the top of it. because the red wire was a larger gauge wire I did not use the wire from the original coil. I have it on the "extra" post on the back of the switch. it is on in the start and run position.. the alternator is a 3 wire alternator that was on it when I got the truck. the PO did not attach the terminal 1 wire to anything. I like the idea of routing it to the solenoid but you said put it on "R" so that alternator is charging while engine is cranking. what about while it is running? wouldn't the alternator not charge during running?

Hy Gene_Spartan80, a three wire alternator needs to be turned on by something, either with wiring or by higher R.P.M. than idling, wiring the number one wire (if that is the alternator excitation wire, I can't remember) to the "R" terminal of the starter solenoid will "turn on" the alternator while the engine is being cranked, once "turned on" the alternator will continue to charge until the engine is shut down, hope that clarifies. This procedure only applies to vehicles whose ignition system is of a type that no longer needs or uses the ballast resistor system.

I have the HEI connected properly. I got the engine to stop when I switch the key off. That was the original problem I asked for help with. The alternator is not connected in a conventional manner because the terminal one wire is dangling. I still have a lingering problem with something discharging the battery when the truck is off. I was hoping the resistor that caused the other problem would be causing the discharge but the battery is sorry discharging. Thanks to everyone who helped me get the problem fixed.
Gene

Go to madelectrical.com. The guy is a wizard when it comes to electrics. He has a diagrams for various applications. I installed a 3 wire alternator in my '57 GMC Suburban with a simple harness I bought from him, it was easy. Contact me directly if you have any trouble, I can send you my hand drawn diagram showing where your wires should go.. Kev

It is pretty handy to have a big switch on the negative side for general use, and until you find the leak.

Ed