The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Rear end suggestions

Ok guys I need some suggestions. I have a 1950 3100. Stock all around. I want to do a disc conversion on the front, maybe an IFS at some point.

What can I do about the rear? I have an engine and trans ready to drop in...350/350. I have a 10 bolt rear out of an 84 c10 but it's two wheel drive and I'm getting feedback that it won't work.

On a budget and all the local yards have trashed anything 1995 and older.

IF...i stayed stock...how would I use the stock rear? I've never worked with a vehicle this old and one that has a tube around driveshaft.

On a budget ...

Interested in how to keep the stock torque-tube rear ...
You can keep the stock rear with 3.55 R&P conversion, but not a 350/350 engine/transmission ...

On a budget?

Something has to go ...

The front end conversion is another, separate consideration.

Yea.. What rear ends can I look for? And the c10s rear end won't work will it?

You need to measure the width of the rear end that is in the truck now, and find one that is the same width. Then weld spring perches on it .

Probably not need to be exactly the same, may be able to go slightly wider, depending on existing tire/fender clearance, if you are satisfied with existing tires. Must also check wheel/brake drum clearance.

A 14 bolt semi floating has 6 lug bolts, heavier duty than 10 bolt, may not be narrow enough, however, they come in at least two widths.

Ed

Is it worth keeping a stock rear then? If I do that need to keep the tube right? But to do that...i would need to keep trans right? Which would be ok as long as it bolts ok to my stock 350 engine I have rdy install. The stock motor on the truck would need a rebuild so I'm wanting to use my 350.

https://westernchassisinc.com/1947-54-Chevy-GMC-Rear-End-Conversion-Kit/

Will this work for me? I have an 84 c10 with a 10 bolt. 2 wheel drive.

The rear axle from the '84 will be to wide. Look for a 4x4 S10 or Blazer, I believe they will have the correct width.

You will need a different bell housing for a V8 to early transmission. Someone will come along with the correct year of bell housing. You will also need different motor mounts when going to a V8.

It may not be the cheapest option, but rebuilding the OEM engine and replacing the rear ring & pinion would get you highway speeds without all the aftermarket parts or adapters.

1. Get rid of the "driveshaft in a tube" called a torque tube. Go with 54 and later open driveshaft. You are adding a 350 and tranny so you are already
heading for open driveshaft.
2. The kit may work for you but expensive when most of the stuff can be taken off a donor truck. 10Bolt or 12Bolt truck if you want to maintain 6 lug.
3. What fits? Age old question. Have to measure widths and get as close as you can. Wheel offset will help.
4. The rear end is the same for a 2WD or a 4WD so don't understand you comment?
5. If you are going IFS 5 lug then you can look at car rear ends like Camaro, etc.
6. Use the search on here and the interweb to find what works.
7. Rear end widths are measure WMS to WMS. Wheel Mounting Surface across. Take off wheel, that's your surface.
8. Don't worry about anything but getting a good donor with the right width and the right ratio. The rest is cake. Welding and slight fab. Shock length and angle does not have to match your exact truck's shocks. There is no magic there. You are in restomod mode now.
9. Craigslist is the new Junk Yard. Cheaper, more honest, no entry fee, no tool fee and no hard hat required. Except for the good old rural guys, the rest turned into A'holes. OSHA and EPA made them do it.
10. Tim, Tommy, Ed and Joe have given the best responses already.
11. I suggest mocking it all up. Install motor and trans, find a rear end and install to same WB with proper pinion angle and weld perches per those parameters. Then shock design, we can help there depending on what parts you are able to save and scrounge. When all done, use a donor driveshaft with proper ends/yokes and have it lengthened or shortened by a driveshaft shop.

Like I said, I'm not getting this "I have a 10 bolt rear out of an 84 c10 but it's two wheel drive and I'm getting feedback that it won't work."
Maybe not correct width but what does 2WD have to do with it? 5 lug? there are plenty of 6 lug truck differentials. Billions. But your IFS will be 5 lug. Can't carry two spares, aye?

I think I'm not understanding what rear end a 4x4 s10 or blazer is. I thought they were a 10 bolt. And I thought they all had same width.

There are S10 trucks, S10 Blazers and full size Blazers. Not all 10bolts are the same. The S10's are 5 lug 2wd or 4wd and full size are 5 lug in 2wd. The 4x4 full size is 6 lug. Everyone is just giving you ideas of vehicles to measure/study. I myself have already said not to pay attention to width regarding 4WD/2WD BUT..........sometimes it has to do with the number of LUGS! 5 or 6. First decide if you want a 5 or 6 lug rear end and THEN we can all move forward. Second measure your WMS-WMS and report. There are several size (ring gear)10 bolts. But you can't be too choosy. It's the width you are after.
I have never used a S10. The 4wd are said to be about 4" wider than 2wd. 4WD is said to be about 59-60" wide. So 2WD would be about 55". I think these numbers are in your ball park.
80's Camaro's (5 lug) are said to be pretty close in width for an AD truck. Mostly 3.08 and 3.42 though. Whatever you use, you will strip off all perches, trailing arms, panhard bars and brackets and do the mock up thing with your leaf springs sitting on new perches and then when everything is right, tack weld the perches, pull out the axle and weld them on. It ain't rocket science but it ain't changing oil either.

Ok.. I think I'm getting a better understanding now. I've been looking up measuring axles and the different variables and stuff.

Ok so my c10 has factory rims and stock size tires, 5 lug. They have half moon hub caps and I feel they would look good on the 3100, kinda factory looking. I'd like to use these if possible.

I didn't pull off the tires but I did a quick measure from the tires and yes the c10 is a good 4 inches wider. So maybe a tight fit.

So I need to find a rearend...i am going back out to the guys house where I got my 3100, pickup a few things. He has a lot of old cars and I saw a bunch of rear ends by themselves. Tomorrow I'll measure the WMS of the stock axle...keep drums on right? Measure surface to surface.. I'll let you know measurement.

By Sunday I hope to get out there and find something...he doesn't have any Fords, looked like a lot of chevys, anything in particular I should look for? With available parts? He has a bunch of 50s 60s cars...

ALSO...if I'm switching to an automatic... I'd like to maybe find a steering column that will mount the same or at least look stockish... any early chevy columns I should look for? I currently have the column with the manual trans shifter.

You can measure any way you want to determine if a certain differential will fit. I am just saying what WMS means. As far as the rest of the stuff, too much for me to figure out.
WMS is from axle flange to axle flange. Drums can be different thicknesses. Sometimes there is no choice, you have to measure what you can and interpolate. That's why nobody ever knows what fits and why the info is different on the web. To many people, it means drums on. Some measure backing plates. The old school meaning was axle flange even though it sound like drums shoulds be on. Just like "Frame off restoration" is really "Body off". Like "top loader" has nothing to do with the gear shift lever location or whether transmission has linkage or not.
The internet says pre 2000 S10 4X4 rear is what works for your truck. Some have disc brakes and some have posi. Says you want 59". None of this info is verified. The perfect all around ratio is 3.73. Highway cruise and acceleration mixed. If that's what you want. Source: me.

Be careful of copy and paste info that you see over and over on different websites. Makes you think it's multi source info. It's NOT.

Matt,
First thing to do is jack up your truck, remove both rear wheels and put two lug nuts on each wheel and snug them down. Now measure from the outside of the drum to the other side outside of the drum, this is the measurement that you need. That is the width of the rear end that you need to find.

Now, do you want 5 lug or 6 lug? If you are going to go with disk brakes on the front, car and some truck rotors are 5 lug, so you will want a 5 lug rear end, so you don't need to have two spare tires. Some trucks have 6 lugs on the rotors and rear axles. What is important is that you match them so you don't have two spares.

The steering column is a different animal all together. The factory one is one piece from top to bottom. A newer column will be two pieces, a steering box and a steering column. Can you change them? Yes you can , but you will need to get an aftermarket kit to do it properly .

Hope that clearly answers your questions.

Well I'm leaning towards 5 lug, but I think I might be able to get 6 lug wheels free from the guy I got the truck. He thinks he can dig up 4. I feel like I read somewhere that 63 to 69 chevy trucks might have a rear end that fits...sound right? I know a guy with a 69 he is parting out, I might just measure his axle..but he has the column and it looks like it would look stock. This is a one piece right? Think I would have swap issues?

I had no intention of jumping into this mess, but, since you mentioned '60s rear ends. The early 60s will fit nicely with a minimum of work. One of our members (f18delta) has done such a swap within the past couple of years. JMO

What difference is there in a 69 rear end from earlier ones? I want to have a pretty good idea before I go all the way out there. At least maybe a column won't make it a completely wasted drive I guess.

What Tommy is saying is that 1960 and up have a two piece column/steering box. The column shaft can be separated at the "rag joint". The gear box, that is attached to the front steering parts, is a separate unit bolted to the frame.
If your truck has stock steering, you will notice that the column and the gear box are "one piece", NOT separate.
You ask about issues. Of course there are issues with any swap. It's called fabbing. None of the stuff you are doing is bolt on, if that's what you mean. Swapping is all about overcoming the "issues". You don't blast off and buy stuff without knowing what it will take to swap it into whatever truck you have. The only issue is you are jumping topics too much. One post for rear end and start another for steering. Stop jumping around here.
If you have a whole 1984 C10, then you have a whole lot of parts to use for you various swaps including possibly the column. You can put almost any Chevy steering wheel on any Chevy column if you want the look. I really forgot or don't understand what you want the new column for. You can get a floor shift, with a 1950's looking shift lever, for 350 automatic, from Lokar. You could keep the original column and abandon the shift lever and linkage.
When dropping a 350/350 into an AD it's probably advisable to get power steering, brakes, suspension and cooling upgrades because you will no doubt be hot rodding. The IFS will help with some of those. All this is a lot of time, money and work. Welding skills needed, fabrication skills needed, careful workmanship and measuring needed. Solid 1950 frame needed. Don't buy a 6 lug rear end and think you are going to change it to 5 lug. That would be a real big issue.

I have a '70 six lug 12 bolt out of a C10 and there is plenty of room for it with 16 inch rims and 75R235 radials.

I am jumping around a bit...im just trying to get all my facts straight and not go off and buy this and that waste time. I'm trying to get an idea together before I start tearing this apart and getting myself in a hole. I'm bad about that...research a whole lot and try to have a rough plan together. I've never had a project this old before. Last thing I want is to tear this truck all apart and get stuck on stuff I could have tried to plan already, doesn't mean I'm gonna buy everything now though. Trying to plan stages..

For example, I did not know steering column and gear box was one unit. Now I wonder about what swap to do or if I should cut and try and put u joints in...

I don't mind fabricating and some of the thoughts and suggestions are very helpful.

Have you ever driven an old truck in stock configuration?

Why are you in such a hurry to cut it apart?

What are you going to do with the truck once it's done?

I ask these questions because stock trucks drive, stop, and ride pretty good as is, there is no real need to modify one if all you are going to do is putt around town.

Oh Joe,

You are so right.

But, then you cannot brag about all the changes "enhancements" you have done on your truck.

Matt you are thinking right. It's just that starting with a closed driveshaft truck and going to a V8, TH350, opens up a whole lot of things and requires a whole new drive train and possibly much more. Just google 47-54 swaps and read a dozen of them. Search our function under "V8 swap AD" or any number of combination of buzz words with " " around them. You will eventually get a consensus of what to do that is best for you and how to do it. You are at the early stages now. I agree about biting off more than you can chew and/or leading to far for budget and practicality. We don't know what your "vision" is and you may not either. Reliability? Speed? Modern? Hot Rod? Seems you are both "original" and "hot rod". Restomod is a good balance. That means new drivetrain and chassis parts and stock body and interior. Mild. The Hot Rod version is kind of the same but more custom, more motor, more bling....that's Restorod. More Wild. Then there are several categories of original and several of Custom/Rod.

Cut it apart sounds awful.....lol

I plan to putter around town, nice easy cruiser. I know, keeping stock would probably be a lot easier.

I have a v8 and an auto rdy to go...and I figured that it's a common enough swap that I'd look into it. Id like to keep the classic look too. Engine and trans have to come out anyway. all the wiring is shot and needs to go. I keep reading a lot of common swaps and modifications and I am going from there. Like rear ends, 12v conversion. Brakes...

I'm putting together a plan while I'm doing the bodywork. Thankfully, very little rust. I think I'd like a v8 and an auto. After talking to a few of you guys I'd like to maybe keep the stock suspension for now, this v8 should weigh less right? It is just going to be for around town.

Not in a super crazy rush...i like doing my research before any project...but once this is rdy for an engine I want to have it going soon after, my wife has the car, I drive the pickup..if I gut the pickup I better have this one running soon lol.

That won't be for a bit...im learning through all your help here. I'm going to have things in stages but keep my eye out for any odd ball stuff I need. Stuff I can order online can wait until I get to that part of the project. It's the stuff like maybe an axle or column that I'll have issues with. All my local yards trash anything past 95.... there arnt any old school junkyard around

I finally took the wheels off both trucks.

Measured with drums on and wheels off. From face to face...between studs.

Stock with torque tube axle...62 inches. 6lug

C10 axle..................................64 inches. 5lug 10 bolt 8.5

A lot closer then I thought it would be. Tires and wheels are different and made it look like a lot.

So this should work...

You do know that you can keep the original rear end including the emergency brake set up . Remove the torque tube find the pumpkin from a say 62 or so truck, take the old pumpkin out install the " new" one. New crush sleeve, pinion bearing if it needs it. Your best bet is to remove the spring perches and weld the new ones on that have the two holes in them on. The two holes let you center the rear end after the new perches are welded on. Of course new u bolts. Sounds like a lot but not really. If you go with another rear end you are going to have to do the same amount of work plus figuring out the emergency brake. Do a little research on this. You might find this an easy swap. I did it on my 49 and it works good. I have a 3:90 ratio in mine. Oh forgot to mention a new drive shaft. Good luck on which ever way you go.