The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Tutorial - 5 Types of Electric Failures

Somebody on here was diagnosing a short to power. I had never heard of that before. This simply explains what that is and how to diagnose many electrical problems in very simple terms. Even draws a picture for us.


https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/Articles/2017/06/06/automotive-circuit-failures

I stopped reading this guys explanation of electrical problems as soon as he stated current flows from the positive side of the battery to the negative side, If he doesn't know any more than that then I'm not interested in his other tales.

Well it doesn't happen very often on this forum. That someone claims to know much more than they actually do. Very few folks get out in front of their headlights. You just happened to pick one of the most confused concepts (Electron flow vs. Conventional flow) in the practical world of electricity to claim that this guy doesn't know anything about electricity. For folks that are interested, here is some information on current flow from Khan academy. For those of us with kids, Khan academy should be familiar, as millions of people around the world use them for education on many, many topics.

Khan academy tutorial on Current vs. Electron flow

Now in terms of Mr. Siegel's credibility on electrical knowledge. His well known books are available on Amazon, here

Rob Siegel's Amazon Book (s)

Folks can read the high reviews he has received from his work. The above tutorial is something he put together for Hagertys , a very respectable repository of all types of automobile information, for us auto enthusiasts to quickly and simply get a grasp of the most common electrical failures. It is a shame you dismissed it so quickly as tall tales.

Perhaps you can share your publications and source of internationally recognized electrical knowledge with us.

The old "current flows positive to negative" theory stopped working about the time solid state electronics came along, so scientists did what they always do- - - - -changed the rules! Since nobody's actually SEEN an electron yet to prove what they do, take your pick which theory to believe.

There are still a lot of common sense rules of thumb that apply, regardless of which side of the bread you think has the butter!
Jerry

The "which side of the bread you think has the butter." puzzle is the easiest of the mysteries to solve.
It is always the side which hits the dirty kitchen floor first when you drop it. If it should ever land butter side up, you either need to head to the hills, or church, or go to town and buy you a lotto ticket.

Well, I have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest. You have made me reach into a dusty bookshelf and pull a book or two from my school days. I have in front of me a book titled "Fundamentals of Applied Physics". I quote, "The direction of this flow (electrons) is from a negatively charged body to a positive charge." Now, unless this guy has figured out a new law of physics where an atom that has had a electron removed from its outer band will move toward a free electron, my argument stands.
Many years ago, one of my instructors told us a story of his WW2 days in the Navy. He stated that at the time, they were taught that current flowed from positive to negative. This was done as people think positive has more of something than negative. I believe the proof of electron flow may be had by building yourself a "Leyden jar" and observing the effects of electrons flowing onto the inner plate.
No, I have never seen an electron. Have you ever seen an electromagnet field. They do exist. Try starting your truck without one.

Hi,
the tutorial is ok for someone not knowing anything about electricity, but has one really big mistake in the #3 section ("short to power").

Referring to his picture both bulbs will always light up together if either switch is on because both switches will close the circuit for bot bulbs independably. You need to turn off both switches in order to turn off the lights (open the circuit). His statement "Thus, bulb2 will turn on along with bulb1, even when bulb1’s switch is off." is only correct, when in this situation bulb 2's switch is on.

Helmut

Herr Barth, I have to agree with Mr. Siegel in this case. He is showing us with a red colored shorting bar between the switches and bulbs how both bulbs will 'light' when either of the two switches are in the closed position, when without the short, only one bulb should 'light' depending on with switch is closed.
Mr. Lane, I took the time to read portions of Khan Academy tutorial. I found it interesting, but for me a bit confusing. As best as I can tell, the author is giving answers to students thinking of entering the field of electrical technology. What he is describing as 'Conventional flow' is what, at the time, we called 'hole flow'. It was an instructors attempt to describe what was going on at the boundary of a p-doped and n-doped semiconductor. Heavy stuff for a beginner.

Exactly Ken (Belt), that controversial topic is beyond the scope of this forum. I would confidently bet that 98% of the the folks you ask on the street that have just a little common sense knowledge about electronics would say that current flows from positive to negative. Why is this.... connect a wire from the neg post to a ground...nothing .....connect a wire from pos post to ground ...fireworks...so the energy must be in the pos post. Sound logic. As Jerry says, it doesn't matter in the end. What is important in the context of this forum is that we (guys like you and Jerry, et al with tons of practical experience) teach as many people as are interested in learning how to troubleshoot and solve electrical issues and get these old trucks back on the road and functional. Thank you for opening your mind and taking the time to check out Khan's video. We are never too old to learn. It is my belief that if folks are armed with the 5 main failures as a sound basis in understanding troubleshooting they are off to a good start. There are several other videos in that training series (how to use a multimeter, etc.) that folks can refer to without getting too deep.

Actually, I HAVE seen a magnetic field.
Jerry

For the fun of it, I'm stepping way out of my 'comfort zone' and know nothing about how a human might see a true, not the effect of, magnetic field. No electrostatics please. Jerry, how did you pull it off?

Simple- - - - -I was stationed at "Clark Field" in the Phillipines, which was built over enough WW II scrap iron that the the whole ramp had so many magnetic anomalies we couldn't calibrate a compass anywhere on the base. We had to send the planes to some other maintenance facility where the earth's magnetism was closer to normal. Hence the "magnetic field" reference!
LOL!
Jerry

I just had to ask, didn't I!!😝
Ain't nobody gonna believe this but.....I think you have a sense of humor.

Twisted and devious, maybe, but it's definitely there!
Jerry