The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Spreading Body Filler

I have been watching several car restoration shows on tv. I have noticed that they spread a layer of body filler over the entire subject panel.

Is this an advanced technique ... would this help me save time over just filling a small dent area?

Or is this just a final cover of everything before painting?

I think that it's more of a time saving thing. Those guys are trying for a show quality finish, as well as trying to fit into the segment constraints of a telivision show. It's quicker for them to cover the whole panel and sand it down than to do each problem area individually. They also get better results in final finishing because they smooth everything at the same time. Unless you have a large area that needs refinishing with filler, I'd do only what needs to be done. You'll find that you have to move quickly if you try to use that much filler at once, as it will set up rather quickly.
Personally, I get somewhat apalled at how much filler they use. I would think on a high-dollar show car, they would use good metalwork instead of covering it up with filler. But that's just my opinion.

For me it's easier to skim coat an entire panel, because I have a hard time feathering the edge of my filler so that it can't be seen after paint.

Maybe Martinsr could shed a little light on the art of feather edging filler?

Yeah, properly feathering the edges can be difficult. It takes lots of practice to get it right. Top quality materials and tools go a long way to getting a good finish as well.

I used to work at a body shop and you just can't be impatient. If a panel is relatively flat in one direction then definately use a block and work in a hex pattern. Part of the results in working the edges out has to do with application of filler as well. The smoother it goes on, the easier it is to "keep" it smooth as you thin it down.

In any event, I would stay away from entire panel application as it is un-necessary and the end result will have more filler involved that wanted. With that said I always "over cover" to make sure the entire affected area is covered, then plan on thinning it down till the un affected metal at the outer edges begins to show thru.

It has been my expeience that feathering takes a lot of time and a lot of care. If you have a large panel with quite a number of places to fill, feathering around each may be much more difficult than doing the entire surface. I was pretty shocked to see on American Hotrod, how much skimming they actually do but I get the impression that this is not unusual in the business.

Along with making sure the application of filler goes well beyond the area you're repairing, it's also necessary to do the initial blocking of the filler with 36 or 40 grit paper to flatten it correctly. Then finish with 80 once you're close. And stop sanding once you hit metal or the edges of the filler become "transparent".

Bob

The reason for covering the entire panel is simple- I've found out that these old cars and trucks might appear to only have a couple small dents here and there, but when you get it stripped down to bare metal and start running your hand on it, you find that there are little dents all over- especially trucks. So, that's why it is quicker and better to cover the entire panel, then sand it down until you start seeing some metal again. I've found that a good way to feel for dents is by putting on a brown jersey glove and running the hand flat on the panel. If there truly are just a couple dents, then I would not cover the entire panel.

oldcarandtrucknut ... you hit the nail on the head for my application. I am working on my cab and everytime after I think I got a dent filled I find another one.

Plus those cabs, especially the back wall, were pretty "wavy" from the factory. I've been working on mine for the last couple of weeks, and there's lows and highs all over, especially at the braces and lower edges. The're not dings or dents, just areas where the factory clamped the panel together to spotweld.

Bob

oldcarandtrucknut, is right. going after little dents one at a time is ka-razy and time consuming. The pros do it that way for a reason.

The pros do it (fast) because they get paid to do it, whether on TV by advertisers where they are really in a hurry, or in a shop where the idea is to get the one your working on out, and the next one in. Think about your job whatever it may be. If you sell bark for a living, then you will put it where the customer wants it, but probably won't spread it and arrange it quite as carefully as if it were your own landscaping.

If you have several dings, or dents in a confined area, then sure catch them all at once, but I still say patients is the best body tool you can have. If you're in a hurry and don't care if you have a little more filler in your finished product then I would go with mass-filling. If you have time and want a really fine product then panel filling wouldn't be the best method in my experience.

I think that we are over looking one thing here also and that is most dings and dents should be straightened, not filled. Careful work with body tools and a little heating and shrinking of metal is a far superior fix to filler.

I'm certainly humble in my remarks, but as a perfectionist when it comes to my projects, I would rather spend a day on one panel if need be and have it right, than to fill it quickly so I can move on.

Tomcoe, I agree with you about straightening instead of filling. The only problem is, it takes a high level of skill to be able to work metal back into shape with a hammer, dolly and torch- a skill few people have. I wish I knew how to...

Skill helps, but is gained thru interest and trial. Again I preach patience. I'm not one with many years of body experience. It is possible if you just go slow and work imperfections out slowly. Anyone (almost) can do these things slowly, speed comes with time. Be prepared to do things more than once if at first the results are not adequate. Bring dents out slowly, very slowly. You have to work them out, not irradicate them in one swing. Dollys and hammers are fairly harmless in novis hands. Heating body panels takes a little more skill and should only be used when the metal has stretched and keeps flexing in and out of being true. Keep torches away from roofs and large arched body panels such as hoods as those take some practice. Flat ones heated slowly and carefully and tapped lightly while cooling keeping a damp shop rag around for final cooling is fairly safe.

I might suggest anyone with interest practicing on something first. Take a hammer to a unusable body panel such as a replaced door or something laying around the yard and practice on it. Put some dents in, then take them out, and ultimately shrink stretched metal if necessary with a torch last.

I believe any of this info can be found on the net if not on this site and I would advise a quick "proceedure" reading prior to attempting it, but don't be intimidated either. Just plan on it taking as long as it takes!

Tomcoe and oldcarandtrucknut, Thanks for the advice. I am new to the body world and my patience is getting the best of me. Being that you have experience in this area I was wondering if could give me some advice in panel replacement as I need some help.

Here is my pictures:
http://picasaweb.google.com/akuips/PanelReplacementPictures

Here is my previous post:
http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgi-bin//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=003854

I prefer to beat on my metal, as it irritates my neighbors... :mad:

my fenders are so beat up, that I have no choice but to skim them completely... but i'll beat them as flat as possible first...

Chev235,
Let me share a quick story with you. When I first began, long story short, I learned at an adult school body shop. The instructor was talented beyond comprehension and we all felt gifted to learn from him. My, then girlfriend, and I spent about 2 months getting her 65 mustang ready for the paintbooth. When we were completely ready and everything was scuffed and ready to shoot, the shop teacher came over to inspect our handywork one last time. (He was always available and had helped us with questions many times and a very nice guy). Upon inspection he found a little crack inside the truck lip just below the rear window. He proceeded to pull out his pocket knife and dug it in as deep as he could, then twisted out a chunk of filler, closed his knife, and went on to the next student with a question.

The moral to this story is if it isn't right, then do it again. I learned a lot that day and his actions were better than hours of lecture. Our beautiful paintjob would have cracked and desaster would have caught up to us eventually.

I would advise....I know....removing the panel and migging in another patch. You will be happiest with it that way. The post about putting in a sliver of metal and smoothing filler to take up the gap will work fine if you are OK with that. It would just always bother me...thats just me.

One other tad of advice would be to tack it in place and make sure everything is a perfect fit before running the bead all the way around. With a few tack welds you can often move a piece slightly, or break a couple and jostle it to be perfect then proceed.

Good luck with it!

Thanks Tomcoe! Advice well taken.