The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 No-Start; Help appreciated

216ci.


-Good compression,
-good fuel,
-starter engages,
-1-year old battery
-Visually verified Spark out of the plugs (why i don't think the issue is the coil)
-New distributor, cap, rotor
-Visually inspected carb, fuel in the bowl and fuel spurts out when i tap the throttle arm

The truck started up when i parked it less than a year ago but would not start last month when i tried it. i foolishly assumed the issue was the distributor because the fuel, battery and starter are all good. So i replaced the distributor, cap and rotor, set the points to .022", verified the plug wire line-up on the cap, verfied spark plug gap. I lined up the distributor according to my trusty Chevy Truck Shop Manual (#1 Cylinder to BB on flywheel).


Nothing i do seems to get ol' girl to start. Even rotating the distributor to and fro can sometimes solicit a POP when i crank the engine, but no sustained combustion. And there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to getting the POP versus getting nothing at all out of her because when i get a POP, i try to finely turn the distributor and it goes away; when i go back the other direction i can't get it to come back.

Here's the photos of the engine bay. I'm lost.
Engine Bay Pics

Reset you timing statically and lock it down. Make sure #1 cyl is on compression (both rockers will have some play), the pointer is on the BB and the rotor is lined up with #1 cylinder spark plug.

Get a spray bottle and put an ounce or so of good gas in it.

Set your idle to a higher setting by either cranking the idle screw in more or finding a way to hold the throttle open more.

Make sure your choke is closed.

Now try it.

If no burp etc., spray a mist of gas down the carb while it's cranking.

If you've got compression, spark and now introduce fuel it should fire.

Good luck
Dave

Are you trying to start the engine with gas that's been sitting in the tank for a year? If so, you're swimming upstream. Catch a couple of ounces of gas from the fuel line in a bottle, pour it on the ground in a safe place, and toss a lit match at it. I've seen many situations where stale gas wouldn't burn with a match, let alone a spark.

Assuming the gas is good, do a static timing procedure. Hold your thumb over the #1 cylinder spark plug hole and have a helper tap the starter repeatedly until you feel a rush of compression. Then put the truck in high gear and gently roll it forward until the BB on the flywheel lines up with the pointer. Don't forget to put the trans back in neutral!

Turn the ignition switch on. With an ice pick type voltage test light attached to a good ground, touch the pointer to the terminal on the side of the distributor with the points closed, then turn the distributor housing counterclockwise slowly until the light comes on. Lock the distributor down- - - -the timing is set close enough to start.

If the distributor rotor is pointing toward #6 cylinder instead of #1 when you get the compression pulse, you're 180 degrees out of time with the distributor. Either remove the distributor and turn it to #1, or just rearrange the spark plug wires to make the distributor cap tower the rotor is pointing toward the #1 cylinder. Follow around clockwise with the other wires, 5-3-6-2-4.
Jerry

I followed these instructions to a T (except rolling the truck to line up the BB.. i turned the engine by hand in neutral instead.. so i could be more precise with the line-up).

Still no start. I know the fuel is good because i can ignite it every single time with a lighter. I also know fuel is getting into the cylinders because when i put my hand over the plug hole and had the engine cranked, fuel rushed out with the air.

So i have compression and fuel, all signs still point to spark. This is confounding because i verified spark at the plug Visually last week.

When i line up the rotor to #1 with the BB, i can crank all day and the rotor will STILL be lined up to #1 according to the BB. so i'm not 180* out at the distributor..

I DO have a spare coil from the parts store,(it looks exactly like the current coil) but it's labelled "no resistor required" and i don't know if i can just cut out the installed resistor and wiring to use it.

UPDATE:
i replaced the resistor with a 12v resistor from a 67 dart 225ci.
Still no start. :/

OK, one last suggestion. Once spark plugs have been very wet with gasoline from repeated starting attempts, priming, choking, etc. sometimes the insulated electrodes develop an invisible coating that lets the voltage leak away to ground instead of jumping the gap. On a few very rare occasions I've had to install new plugs to get an engine that was otherwise in time, and had fuel and compression, to light off.

Here's the absolute foolproof way to confirm distributor position- - - -remove the valve cover and watch the #6 cylinder valves as you roll the engine over (clockwise from the front, obviously). The last valve in line back by the firewall is the #6 exhaust. Turn the engine until that valve spring is fully compressed, then keep turning as that spring relaxes. Watch the second spring from the rear (#6 intake) until you see it just begin to compress. At that point, the distributor rotor should be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire. The BB lines up twice, since the crankshaft turns twice as fast as the distributor- - - -once with the #1 cylinder on compression, and again one turn later WHEN THE PISTON IS AT THE TOP OF THE EXHAUST STROKE. Firing the plug then assures a "no start" situation.

This method (known as "companion cylinder") eliminates all the guesswork about when #1 is at the top of the compression stroke, ready to fire the spark plug.
Jerry

Edit: The MOPAR resistor will drop the primary voltage too much for good performance. Temporarily bypassing the resistor won't hurt for diagnosis and you'll get a hotter spark during cranking. Just don't leave it that way or you'll have very short-life points.
Jerry

I removed the valve cover and rotated the engine until the 2nd valve spring from the firewall was JUST beginning to compress (#6 intake) and
Checked the distributor rotor positon. It was inline with #1 spark plug. The only thing that wasn't just like you said was the BB was NOT lined up to the pointer. Dropped a dash of gas down the carb and STILL no start. Not even a burp. I'm wondering if that BB not Being lined up indicates something. At any rate, i'm going to clean up the spark plug electrodes, maybe replace the plugs and try again..

[EDIT]

Is this a 6 Volt truck with a 12 Volt inverter installed somewhere? If so, then:

You presently have the coil resistor for your 12 volt coil wired to a 6 volt source (the starter terminal).

I've got a 12v generator, 12v voltage regulator, 12v coil and 12v battery. It was converted to 12v before i bought it..

Update: pulled the plugs, wire brushed 'em, re-gapped em to .035" and lined up the engine by the valve springs as "hotrod lincoln" suggested and the truck started up every so roughly. I got backfires like crazy and she wouldn't stay alive no matter how much choke or throttle i gave. Going to tinker with the distributor and see if i can get it started long enough to smooth it out.

Update2:
I went back and re-did Hotrod Lincoln's valve spring procedure until the BB, the distributor rotor and the valve springs all lined-up, i even made sure i got the circuit tester to light-up off the side of the distributor and couldn't get it started. Going to give it a break and try back later with a fully charged battery.

Sounds like you're getting close.

If a timing change or new plugs doesn't help, you might want to look at your wiring/terminals/ignition switch, as some of that wiring looks a bit hinky and/or connections possibly corroded. I've had a few older vehicles that had massive carbon build-up in the ignition switch. As a last resort you might want to run a new, uncut wire from a "clean" battery terminal to the coil to check things out.

The points in your distributor look misaligned and worn (perhaps it's just the angle of the picture?) Just trying to think of anything else...

Try backing off the valve adjustment a little. It sounds like you've got some intake valves with zero or at least not enough clearance, which is causing the backfires. Also look for carbon tracks inside the distributor cap which would allow a spark to jump forward or back one position on the cap and fire a plug while an intake valve is open. A mean prank we used to pull in high school was to pop a guy's distributor cap and put a few pencil lines inside it- - - - -instant rough running from cross-firing!
Jerry

I took some time off, came back, checked continuity from my ignition switch to the voltage regulator and a couple other places. It didn't look like too much corrosion behind the igniton switch and everything else looked good but i put a lead straight from the battery to the ignitiom coil and she started up. I had to keep my foot on the gas to keep her running, but she ran smooth with no backfires. The problem was she wouldn't idle on her own. No combination of choke or throttle was keepong her up. I almost had it to operating tenperatures when i lost it. I'm thinking carburetor idle fuel supply

Back to the books

Pretty handicapped so far as any mechanical skill goes but I had a nearly identical issue with my 235. First thing I did was rebuild the Rochester single because the gasket between the bowl and air horn was dried out causing it (or at least seemed like an easy explanation) to run rough and cut off at operating temps. Reinstalled and had the same issue, just this time without fuel spraying all over the exhaust manifold. Swapping oil, I found a lot of fuel in the oil pan. If your running the mechanical fuel pump still, it could be worth verifying the diaphragm is intact (that was the issue in my case). Best wishes
-Matt