The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk How far is too far

Hey gang, Got my 55 GMC down to the frame and about it send it to sandblasting. I'm rebuilding the original 248 and keeping it three on the tree. The only thing I am doing which is not original is disc on the front and maybe changing the rear end gearing. Many friends say drop a 350 in it, put a mustang front end kit on it, bag it, drop it, one even said chop it. Just wanted to know what you guys think. Oh and also I'm not putting air in it, roll the window down. One more thing what do you think about maybe putting the fenton dual exhaust manifold on it?

Disc on front, rear end gearing.

Ed

i think you should keep it all original... or not. once any mods are done its historic value is lost and then you might as well go all out as budget permits to make it as modified/modern as your vision suggests. In other words i think that one or two mods destroys originality disproportionately to the benefit derived. but that is just my opinion and no more valid than anyone elses..

I favor keeping things original to maintain the
historic value/preserve history.
I would not change brakes.
I would change the rear gears if you can find
lower ratio gears that will fit.

I have read too many threads were people went the
two carb, dual exhaust and wound up with problems.

If one must give in to changing only do what can be done
by bolting on without cutting, welding, drilling, so the
truck can be brought back to original. Jeffrey

I'm gonna catch some heat!!!! Folks, these trucks are not rare they are not unusual and if you look on the for sale sites they "normally" don't bring high dollar collector prices. They will not be "rare" well beyond most if not all of our life spans. Having said that there are some variations of our beloved trucks that are way more "cooler" than others and therefore should be kept as close to original as possible.

Toolman, it is your truck and you do it however you want and don't feel the least bit guilty about what you have done or will do to it. Most of all have fun with your project and keep us up on what you are doing.

I'm firing up my torch Martin. My vote is keep it stock as much as you can. While these trucks are not "rare", if you look most have been hotrodded. You are also preserving a bit of history. IMHO part of the charm of driving my old '38 is experiencing it the way it was back then. The whining straight cut gears, the rough ride, the non power brakes, the leaking oil, it's just freeking fun. If I want comfort I get in my modern truck or car.

I'm not a hot rodder by nature, but I did build a 56 resto-rod. Throughout the project the main goal was to make sure it could be undone by the next caretaker if wanted. To me, disc brakes, dual pot MC and gears are pretty minor and would add to the driving safety without detracting from it's "originality"...the average person would never know unless you told them.

Bottom line is it's yours, so build it the way you'll enjoy it.

Mike B

I like the time capsule experience myself as original is the way to go in my opinion. No syncro into low and armstrong steering are all part of the experience.

Disc brakes are totally useless as these old trucks are light and are not being driven like a race car. For the sake of "safety" stay with the drums. Good operating drum brakes will stop the truck without fail. The added disc brakes require more pressure so you'll have to add a booster and so, and so on... for no benefit.

Getting a higher ratio rear end is a good thing to do. The old in line 6's have plenty of torque so getting up to and maintaining 65 MPH is not a problem. They are easy to bolt in and hook up to existing drive train with little to no modifications. An early 80's Chev half ton 2WD differential is 1" wider than stock and with a little notch in the spring perch, you can have 3:23 gears and still keep your original axles that you'll need to keep your original rims.

Like others have said here, it's your truck, do with it as you wish.

Personally, I just hate seeing a half attempt for "safety" or "cool" and end up with a (truck) that nobody wants (or can drive).

I also am a fan of originality.
Having said that, my own truck has been altered in a couple areas (before I got it).

Bottom line--as several others have said--it's your truck. Do it however you want. You don't have to justify it to anyone else.

If it was my truck, I would keep it all original. They are only original once.
The nice part of this hobby though, is that it is all in the eyes of the beholder. It is your truck and you should do what appeals to you.
Good luck and enjoy
Jim

Why does one buy an old (classic) truck? Is it to have something from the past to keep our imaginations about the past alive or so we can chop, drop and mod them until the imagination is lost?

If you want a truck all "gussied up", buy an ugly truck that ain't got the personality these old (classic) trucks have and put it to ruin.

If I want something chopped, dropped and modded, I sure as hell won't buy an old (classic) truck and ruin it for all that.

My vote: Stay original, stay imagining... My opinion.

Does this look like ANYTHING but a 37 Buick Special. Straight eight under the hood but it's a 1952 263ci with all bearings, no Babbitt. Front power discs, open driveshaft rear end, automatic overdrive transmission, 12v, seal beams, air conditioning, 3 point seat belts, radial tires, etc. I think it comes down to how you use your vehicle. If for short jaunts, parades, or to some sort of gathering then original is fine but I drive and drive and DRIVE mine and do so relaxed in the left lane. Except for the a/c unit the inside looks as original as the outside and unless someone wants to crawl under it they think it's a nice clean factory 37. We have made a lap of the U.S. in it and going up to see Denali in Alaska this summer. If any original type ride wants to follow along you're certainly welcome but I know which one I want to be in. It gets all the attention on an original but with modern amenities that make for a much more stress free journey. Ask yourself how your truck is going to be used/driven and act accordingly.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/Deep%20snow%20011.jpg.html

That's a nice looking Buick, Evan!

I'm a fan of keeping the truck as original as possible. I just think they are works of art/beautiful as they came off the production line. I just don't like the look of a modified/dropped truck. Chop tops on trucks turn my stomach. Again, its all personal preference.

The comment I always make is that these trucks don't "NEED" to be modified to be safe and enjoyable. In their day they were state of the art. I well maintained original equipment truck is perfectly safe to operate and fun to drive. By looking at magazines/websites/trucks at shows it is easy to get the impression that they have to be modified to be useable. That is not so. I have a 58 Suburban that is mostly original. A previous owner put a 250 in place of the 235. I swapped in a 3 speed overdrive from a 67 C10. I can keep up on the highway and it drives and brakes straight and true. I've always intended to keep my truck functional as a truck.

There has been a lot of discussion on this site about brakes on these old trucks. Switching to discs doesn't necessarily make the truck safer. As long as your brakes are capable of locking the wheels during braking, they will provide sufficient stopping power. If you will be doing repeated hard braking discs will perform better do to their ability to cool faster. With repeated hard stops on drum brakes you will get residual heat in the drums that will decrease braking ability. If you are going to auto cross your truck discs are probably a good upgrade. If not, clean and adjust what you have and you will do just fine. I will say that adding a dual chamber master cylinder is a legitimate safety upgrade. That will prevent a catastrophic failure if you blow out a brake line.

That is a very long way of saying that if you really want to modify your truck because of your personal preference, go for it. Its not for me but I respect those that enjoy that part of the "sport." Just go into it with you eyes wide open. You don't have to mod your truck to make it safe and enjoyable. I love driving my Burb just the way it is. I feel perfectly safe.

Drum brakes actually have more braking power than disc when cool since they have more area of contact between the shoe and drum than there is between disc pad and rotor. My swap to discs came not from heat but from weather. We were going through Kansas City during rush hour and a monsoon where the right side drums were under water for miles. Brakes went away completely on that side so the discs were on the front before the next trip. On ones that are driven only in nice weather then factory is fine but the old Buick gets driven in downpours, blizzards, sand, mud, or anything that passes under it's wheels in any kind of weather. It is really nice when you put your foot on the brake under any conditions to actually have stopping power. I know most old rides don't get driven around 8000 miles a year but for ones that do upgrading is a sound choice.

People forget or were never old enough to learn to drive
drum brakes in heavy rain where the road floods up.

Lightly apply the brakes as you pass/go through the deep water
keeps the brake linings dry because there is no space for
the water to get between the linings and the drum.

Doing this always kept me from losing brakes. Jeffrey

Very well said Larry_58_Burb. These old trucks weren't built to be Caddilacs, but to be trucks!

This may be controversial and circumstances are different for each of us...and perhaps depends a lot on the year's and models.

To "modify" will usually require not one...but several modifications as you do one, it will require another and another and another, and is generally very costly.
That being said, I "dare say" that many many times we can "restore to original" with less money than all the modifies and have a true classy/classic truck.

If I ever find one that is complete I would definitely "save it". However, most of mine is in pieces and already "modded" in many ways so I drag them home and use what I have and access to.
All I can say is basically "to each his own" but PLEASE, don't ruin a great example of Americana.
Thanks for listening.

I got the money for a paint job then the homecoming come around again then I thought it still looks good as the day it came out of the factory so another year won't hurt and now off to the homecoming well worth the trip

Nothing better then keeping the original paint.
A 70 year old original paint that is still presentable
is better then a new paint job any day. Jeffrey

My son is using his truck for his business which runs
from the end of April to the beginning of December.
The business starts slow and ends slow. Authentic
Neapolitan pizza truck. Flower, water imported from
Italy. Makes his own fresh mozzarella.


Last summer his engine had to be rebuilt. His first
and only experience with old truck (1946 2 Ton) and
a crash box.

Even though the engine ran smooth it was tired.
He used the truck in the fall of 2015. Then in
the spring of 2016 he started up again but come June
his engine died.

At that point he felt the truck was under powered.
And his friend that was working with him that summer
was trying to convince him to put a small block in.

I told my son that there is too much involved. Not
only engine mounts, transmissions, driveshaft's,
exhaust and switch the truck over to 12 volts.

At that point I got a free 1954 235. I told my son
19 more HP and 8 LB more torque. And being it is a
1954 it will JUST drop in.

It just dropped in and no water pump problem.

However the 54 engine came out of a 1 ton truck
so my son went from the 11" clutch down to the 10"
clutch. The full pressure oil required another oil
pressure gauge.

I found a NOS GMC 1946 gauge because they could handle
the higher pressure of the 54 engine.

Time to put in the new gauge and the GMC gauge used
larger diameter line. Lucky for me there is an old
time parts store with a 70+ year old owner. Told him
what the problem was and he pulled out a 1" length
of tubing with a different sized female coupling on
each engine so one side matched up the original oil
line and the other matched up the 46 GMC gauge.

Problem solved?

No because the pressure numbers are printed onto the
instrument panel glass. So the gauge reads 15 LBs
instead of the 35 LBs.

I think it is the filling station that sells new
instrument panel glass for 1946 GMC. That will just
fit right in.

Problem fixed?

No. Because the oil pressure will now read correct
but the GMC speed numbers on the glass are not the
same as on the Chevy. Good thing I found out before
I bought the GMC IP glass.

Now there are competitors out there. Some started
with an old truck from the 40's or 50's. Though they
have modern running gear. So they only look old.
Then the one's that when the expanded they added
modern trucks.

Customers are impressed that his truck is authentic
as is his food. My son now misses being able to say
his truck has the original engine. I miss that as well.

Though on the bright side we still have the original
engine and when the time comes it will be rebuilt and
put back in. Jeffrey

I call them "Yaddas." "Yadda put a 350 smallblock in it. Yadda put A/C in it. Yadda subframe it and add discs."

Yaddas don't have much experience with antique vehicles, and even less experience with a wrench. They think you can transplant an engine in one hour (with commercial breaks every ten minutes) and NOS makes every car do 10 second quarters. If your numbers-matching museum piece can't drift, they ain't impressed. I've been extremely rude, and once threatened physical harm, to jerks who think helping means, "Yadda waste a ton more money, you're doing it all wrong."

Once upon a time I had the patience to try to educate the Yaddas. I tried to show them the flawed mathematics of irrevocably destroying a $50K museum piece by adding $100K worth of new speed parts to create a $15K jalopy that still can't keep up with a stock Hyundai sedan. I tried to educate them on the physics of making 3.5 tons of steel go fast or turn corners; they know better, they have seen all the Fast and Frivolous movies.

I started my project without the pressure of preservation. The original engine was laying on its side in the back of the truck, bleeding through a jagged hole in the crankcase. The engine in the truck is a service replacement 248 inline block, so the "numbers matching" originality is already gonzo. Even then, it's not worth the money or effort to "upgrade" to a 350-sb, I would see zero improvement in performance unless I completely re-engineer the driveline and suspension.

My "shut and go away" question for the Yaddas used to be, "If I wanted a race car, why would I start with a moving van?" These days, however, you may find that the person you are speaking to has invested $100K in modifying his/her gender; the argument that originality is good and useful is not only alien to them, but offensive. In that case, I ask the Yaddas to form an orderly queue; I can't personally offend all of them at once.

3 cheers for hedgehog....

Pretty offensive remarks there Mr Hedgehog for those who belong to this site and enjoy modified trucks. Not everyone is impressed with a $50,000 museum piece (haven't seen many stovebolts that fit that category) in a do not touch display. Some of us members are over the age for Social Security and have spent many years working with wrenches on classic cars/trucks on both sides of the road and enjoy looking at and driving a modified street rod as well as a nicely restored classic. I take comments about the hotrodded state of my Suburban from both camps with a smile and the statement "It's mine, I paid for it and you didn't so I'll do it my way and you do yours however you want". You are, of course entitled to your opinion even if it is bigoted and snobish. Now I'm going to finish my morning coffee looking out the window at my very nice looking '48 Suburban street rod. BTW, sometimes Yaddas have ideas worth listening to.

Mission accomplished.

I resent and rebuff unsolicited advice on how to spend my few pennies, and that makes me a bigot. Should I check my privilege and ask your pronouns?

Opinions are just that. We all have different ones. I like that we all are different and i learn from each. I have enjoyed the discussion in this thread up until we lost objectivity and lost sight of the nature of our interest in being in here. I move that we enjoy each others virtual company and move to better place with any further debate.
Hambone

I believe this one has run it's course.