The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun Which direction on one ton 1949 GMC flatbed.

Hi there everyone-I'm a new bolter that needs some help with the general direction of my current project-a one ton flatbed 1949 GMC. It has an engine/transmission but is not running and may be seized. I've got marvel mystery oil in the spark plug holes and I'm giving it some time to work.
Here's where I'm stuck: I've read that one ton brake parts are very hard to come by and it needs them. Then there's the 45mph top speed. I'd like to use this truck as a general work truck and use it often with some highway driving.
Do I keep the 228 engine and get it redone and then look for a different rear end and trans? I have a 1984 one ton chevy dually with 454 and auto that is an available donor. Do I put the drive train from the 1984 into the 1949 one ton? Or transplant the 1949 GMC body to the other chassis? I'm not a welder/fabricator yet and need some sound advice. Thanks in advance. Tim

That's a call only you can make. I personally prefer mine as close to original as possible! 6 volt and all. As the saying goes, "there only original once"! As far as higher speeds, there is plenty of info on this site to install different ring & pinions. Best to you and your endeavors! Don't forget to post pic's of your project. Good luck

Hello Lotshorses

The brake cables are relatively easy to make up. The rear drums and brake shoes are like hens teeth. You're not going to find them unless you dig. Shoes can be re-lined. I haven't tried to find my rear wheel cylinders yet but I believe they are out there if you dig hard enough. Wheel base may be an issue if you swap the cab to the 1984 frame. Good luck and post some pictures - Joe

Since its only a flat bed, the cab would be easier to transplant since your drivetrain, brakes, etc are already complete in the 84, and parts are readily available. Given that you want to use it for a daily work truck I'd consider going that route. Your tape measure, a pencil, and some grid paper will be your best friend on this one. Your steering, radiator, inner fender wells, and cab mounts are a couple things that come to mind right away that will need attention. Take a look through my photos and a couple other builds on here to get ideas, I have seen a couple of cabs transplanted onto newer chevy C30/3500 frames

Lotshorses, Got any pics. I'm in Central Ar. near Russellville. Working on 3 ton 50 GMC. Interested to see the direction you go on yours as well. Good luck however you go. Jim

Lotshorses,
welcome to the Stovebolt. You have come to the right place to get help with your truck. The one thing that is very hard to find for the brake system is brake drums. If yours will clean up within spec then they wouldn't be an issue. Wheel cylinders and shoes can all be rebuilt. I kept mine original style except I changed out the rearend gears for the 4.10 set and I can go 60 mph in comfort. I think you have a fun project on your hands.

Hi Tim

We are both building the same truck...well sorta...mine is a 53 thou..I started with a plan of keeping it original and that lasted about a week when I had to cut brake drums off to get them off...thus the new plan...On mine I will be changing and upgrading everything from the frame rails down...disc brakes with a 1/2 ton front axle and I also swapped out the 8 lug antique rear-end with a more modern 1985 K5 Chevy Blazer rear end....

I agree 45mph in this day an age you are asking for trouble...in my neck 55 mph and up is the norm now...I will be trying to keep everything above the frame rails as stock as possible...except I will be doing a 12 volt wiring harness with electric wipers...

Good luck and post up some pictures when you get a chance...gotta love the looks of these smelly old Chevy trucks...

MikeC

It's been great reading the responses and looking at the work some of you have done. I'm still a beginner and can only begin to imagine what some of you know. I spent the day today building the engine/body/bed hoist I found here on the forum using mostly 4X4's and bolts. It's already needed. The one ton is now cleaned of mouse droppings and junk and is really clean and no rust through. I stripped the seats and painted the springs/frame so things are started. It looks to me like the cab and bed being swapped to the 84 one ton dually chassis is likely. If that is what I do, I will let you guys know so that I can get you the pieces and parts you will want. Drums, brake shoes etc. Thanks again for all the advice. Tim

I wouldnt put this body on your 84 for alot of resones number one is before 73 all the frames were flat your 84 has a big step up under the cab so your cab wouldnt set real good on the newer frame. Big resone number 2 is the 84s front tires wouldnt fit under the narrow 49s front end. If i wanted to modernise i would change the engine,trans and rear axle. I think there are to ways to look at this. Its stays all original and is used for what it is or its upgrated to a new truck with a old looking body.

This is going to seem pretty stupid but here goes because I really want to get this right. This one ton is clean, straight and rust free and has great aged original paint and beautiful sign painters art on the doors and I don't want to do anything short sighted.
Did I understand that it would be a viable option to change the engine, trans, rear end but keep the original brakes, wheels, suspension? Could you safely stop at higher speeds and handle at higher speeds? After all, one of the reasons I'd considered swapping to a new chassis in the first place was lack of available brake components. I'd love to keep the truck on it's original frame. I understand the 84 Chevy one ton rear end is pretty much a bolt on improvement but that a front end swap is another matter-the 84 front is supposed to be much too wide. I apologize for the rambling but I have the dreaded new truck fever.

MikeC, I will get some pictures up when I get to the stage of learning how to upload pictures to the Stovebolt site. Or if anyone wants to send me an email address I could forward them to you.
eagleuh1 great to hear from a local- I'm about three hours from you. I live in Cotter, about 12 miles from Mountain Home. If you are ever up this way give me a call and come see my trucks. I'm a pretty decent cook too if I do say so myself. Thanks to all for your help-Tim

What direction is only up to you, it is your truck.

For my own truck I drove for a long time stock with exception of a couple years newer 235. They're fun and useful just as they are, you don't really have to change anything at all.

For my next truck or improvements on the now sad looking 52 I have a different plan.
Original appearance, body, interior and so on, on the original frame and likely springs to.
I have a later model 14 bolt rear axle from a cab and chassis that is the perfect width, need to change spring perches. I'll either run the existing drum brakes from the dualy C&C, or swap to single wheel brake drums (less dish) and move backing plates out, or disc brake kit (common and cheap but not with parking brake).
For the front I have an assortment of parts and pieces to use P-30 spindles, different single wheel hubs/rotors... simpler for someone else would be the now available disc brake kit (check swap meet section).
Engine I have a Detroit Diesel 3-53T ready and waiting, will require a different crossmember for the rear mounts but otherwise I don't think any modifications to the truck frame or body.
Behind that I have a Spicer 5 speed overdrive. And behind that a Spicer 4 speed auxiliary overdirve (probably unnecessary but why not, it'll be interesting and fun).
Steering I will keep manual but swap in a very nice low mile 2 ton steering gearbox I already have, and I believe it is a slower ratio, so sort of power steering at the expense of more cranking.
Brakes I'll use a hydrobooster and dual circuit MC.


Again, it is your truck to do as you wish. If you're not sure then I strongly suggest fixing it up with little to no changes (you may need another used running GMC engine, can be had pretty cheap) and driving it as it is for a good while, you'll figure out for yourself if you want to make any changes and why or why not.

Grigg

I dont know if you have drove a truck of this age lately but if you could i think it would help you figure out what you want to do. The rear end from the 84 is not a just bolt in deal and it is wider than your old one But it will be under a wide flat bed so it wont matter.I have lived with only haveing a 45 MPH rig and i didnt mind but thats me. On my trucks i never wanted tire slideing front brakes so you could live with you front axle with a diffrent rear axle and a brake booster and have all the brakes you need. Just my 2cents.

Hi Tim

I think it depends on where you live and how fast you need to go to not get run over...

You also need to think about what you want in the end...do you want something you can climb into daily and drive or do you want to use occasionally for Sunday runs to the ice-cream store...occasional use a stock type truck will do fine...you will need to watch the rear view mirror a lot more...

A 1984 chassis will give you way more ease in driving pleasure than the stock one will...not sure how the front width is thou...but I bet it is wider than the vintage truck is...

my smelly old 2 cents...

MikeC

The stock front suspension will handle just fine. Virtually all truck over 1 ton are running the very same suspension design, and even Ford and Dodge still use a solid axle suspension on their 3/4 and 1 ton HD models. As far as better brakes or getting away from hard to find parts for the originals, there's ways around that that do not require a frame swap or entire front suspension swap.
The engine should be plenty reliable, the GMC 6 is one of the best ever made. For more power, though, a later 270 or 302 GMC 6 would be a bolt in, no modifications needed. I would do the rearend swap to get better gears, and also look into a more modern single piece wheel with a more common size to run modern radial tires on. Set it up right, and you'll have a solid driver that will be every bit as reliable as a late model truck, possible even more so.

Well this ought to give everyone a laugh...I kept thinking I said something wrong in my second question because there was no response for several days. Then this morning I noticed there was a second page. Wow...
Maybe I'm smelling too much gas and oil in the garage.
The new replies are very helpful. They give me many more options that are not as radical. I'm still going over the outside of the truck with a green scrubbing pad and things are looking good. From here I'll be scrubbing the crusty ceiling behind the crumbling headliner and then degreasing and cleaning the interior.
Another question, when you remove an engine do you remove the entire front end sheet metal or just radiator and hood?

I can't quite understand this comment.
I've had lots and lots of fun and pleasure driving my pretty much stock old trucks.
Given the trouble, work, and incorrect width of an 1984 front end having to do the conversion or swap likely would take all the "pleasure" out of it. I think you'd have a lot of work and very little to gain, and might end up with a funny looking truck..


Engine can be removed after removing radiator and hood... On a Chevy the engine has to almost stand on end to slither out and it is quite tight. On the GMC the top of the radiator support comes out which gives some more room, may not be as bad.

Even so it will be a whole lot easier and safer for the rest of the truck if you remove entire front clip, not many bolts holding the fenders to the cab and only two for radiator support to the crossmember. leave the radiator in place and take it along with fenders out as one unit.

Grigg

302's look just like 228's, parts are more readily available and cheaper, plus more powerful. 8 lug, 14 bolt GM rears are cheap, plentiful, come in lots of ratios. Disc brake kits are available for your front end. Don't make more work for yourself.

Ed, what you and Grigg have suggested makes sense. Keep it as original as possible but upgrade the power and brakes. I've been looking everywhere I can think of for a 302. I can find the occasional military 302 which requires alterations but no civilian 302 complete engines. Any ideas anyone?

I have a 302, military, but I haven't used it hot. Aren't the front mounts missing on them? Keep looking, one will turn up, a 270 would also be good-make sure to get one with a 6 bolt crank.

You do know how to tell them apart?

Ed, I haven't read anything about the 6 bolt crank issue. I know there are quite a few mods needed to make a 302 military work.

GMC 6 engines had 4 bolt or 6 bolt crankshafts (228 and 270?), depending on the year (and maybe the engine size - it looks like the 302 was always 6 bolt?).

It looks like around 1952/1953 was the changeover from 4 to 6.

I am happy with my 228. If I needed to completely rebuild it, I would use a GMC 302. My truck is stock except I have converted it to 12 volts. I was happy with the 6 volts until my generator needed replacement. It starts quicker with 12 volts. I use my truck for hauling construction materials and doing dump runs. I like having my old truck be an old truck. My truck moves up the freeway at 50-55 mph.

Thanks for the feedback. I just obtained a 270 from a 1958 GMC pick up. It may become the new donor engine.
I'm still jazzed about this truck but the learning curve is tough at the beginning.

An update on this project-I bought the one ton disc brake
kit from "thoroco" and will use that to deal with the scarcity of brake drums etc. Also will be getting the HO52 rear end from "triplet" for a swap with mine which gets my speed up and drum brakes with obtainable parts and it has a couple of non split rim wheels too. I'll try to get some photos as I go and then learn how to post them for anyone else who might be considering these changes. It's been great dealing with fellow bolters.

HI Lotshorses

You said in your original post you want to be able to drive this thing on the highway....if that is the case...upgrade everything you can afford to upgrade...in stock form in a typical traffic flow situation you are asking for trouble if you upgrade one thing under the hood but not under the fenders too....these trucks do great at there original pace (so I have been told) but if you jack up the horses under the hood do yourself a favor and put disc brakes on the front too. There are several vendors that sell them out there now...suspensions I would say would be up to you and how rough a ride you want....these things dont ride anything like anything we daily drive now.....they are old trucks...

If I was younger I would do a full chassis swap and be done with it...then everything works like our current day stuff...but you still have the cool old truck looks...but then thats a whole 'nother can of worms to be opened..

my 2 cents

MikeC

Okay I've got an HO52 rear coming, a 302 coming and the front disc conversion in the works. Do I keep the bullet proof old 4 speed trans or is there a better alternative to help keep the top speed higher? Tim

With those modifications planned just keep the 4 speed and give it a try, you'll probably like it just fine.

If you want to spend more time and money for another small gain research and try an NV4500 five speed overdrive transmission.

The other 5 speed OD that is an easy fit is not really large enough for a 1 ton is the T5 transmission from an S-10 among other things.

Today was the second time out in the truck. OEM rear end and stock 4 spd trans and 302 engine. I have the rear end to swap out but I may need more than that. Comfortable sounding speed was about 40 but could go to 47 wound out a bit. I anticipate 20% gain with the rear end swap but still that puts me at 48-54 mph. I'm thinking I will need a different trans ultimately to get out on the road to travel. If the T5 is not up to the task, then what do I look for?

NV4500

See if you can find a Brownie 5831 3 speed auxiliary transmission

Grigg, do you have any experience with this in a one ton? If the final gear is .75:1, how much speed gain would be expected? A quick look on Ebay shows $950 for the adapter plate and $1500 for the NV4500. Wow.

Grigg, do you have any experience with this in a one ton? If the final gear is .75:1, how much speed gain would be expected? A quick look on Ebay shows $950 for the adapter plate and $1500 for the NV4500. Wow.

Before you gear it up to go any faster- - - - -have you done anything to upgrade the brakes and steering? At least do a full rehab of the stock steering- - - -king pins and bushings, drag link, tie rod ends, etc. The straight axle works well on the higher-capacity trucks. Stay FAR away from the various IFS systems which are all based on subcompact car components and are totally inadequate for a full-grown truck. Disc brakes- - - -definitely!

If you're running highway speed anywhere near me and mine, I'll be a lot more comfortable if you can steer and stop, as well as keep up with traffic!
Jerry

Yes, I have the Disc brake conversion, all suspension rebuilt, new drums in rear, rebuilt lever shocks. So, I think it will handle 60-65. The steering is great and much better and easier than my 58 1/2 ton.

$150. or so for a GM ff 14 bolt sounds like a pretty economical way to solve the problem.

Ed

Ed, what is a GM ff? Any year/models to suggest?

General Motors, GMC and Chevy have them, make sure ff, 14 bolts having tin cover on, front pinion breaking retainer bolts on, there are also sf, 6 lug ones that are a good heavier duty for a 10 bolt. Some have disc brakes, Cad. Eldo disc brakes, with park brake feature can be used with adapters(aftermarket.)

Ed

Thanks, I'll check that out.

FF: Full floater, the one with the big hub with two bearings that sticks through the wheel center.

SF: Semi-floater, with an axle flange the wheel bolts onto and a single bearing pressed onto the axle or in the housing. Semi-floaters usually have 5 or 6 lug studs, full floaters have 8 or more. The full-float axle shafts can be removed while the wheels and hubs stay on the vehicle.
Jerry