The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Mismatched VIN

All,

I hope you can provide some insight. I'm looking at a 1957 3200 Napco. Everything about it looks like a 3200: badging, the front Napco pumpkin on passenger side, the Napco badge lists 3200, the long bed, 8 lugs. The only problem, the VIN states V3A57, which designates a V8 3100. The VIN plate also doesn't look original, but the title and registration both list the same VIN. The guy seems genuine, and I'm guessing that somewhere along the way, either the VIN was lost and replaced with a junkyard VIN, or the whole cab of a 3100 was placed on a 3200.

Is there something I'm missing? Is there a great risk in considering this truck? Thanks.

If I remember correctly California is one of those states that is REAL picky about VIN's being on the right vehicle. I would be inclined to pass on this one as hard as that is to do.

Does the Title list it as a 3200 and you said the title vin matches the vin on the plate? If this is true I would think that is your official documentation. It is recorded on the title and the state has signed off on it. This could have happened before the state started issuing titles. Unless California was unique, in 1957 states had not gone to the title system yet. I would rely on the state documentation and the fact it matches the truck and not the 60 year old manufacture guide even though it is correct, a lot happens to these vehicles over the years.

To be 100% comfortable I would call your DMV. They can provide you with the phone number to the legal department that is probably located in the capital. They are set up to field these types of questions. I had to make a similar type call to get a legal question answered about a title question in Kentucky. The DMV works can't answer these questions but they do have a department that can. They might have to open a case and get back to you but they respond quickly.

I might be wrong, but since the 3200 was a 1/2 ton, I think it came with six lugs instead of eight even as a Napco. The 3600 and 3800 came with eight lugs.

Sounds like you have a 3100 cab on a long bed with some Napco 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton parts.

The VIN tag was spot-welded to the door frame from the factory. If yours is screwed or riveted on, it has been replaced.

You can also check the VIN stamp on the frame. Some states are real picky about requiring that the two match. I doubt that yours will match because of the long bed/short bed situation.

It is not uncommon for these trucks to be built with parts from many trucks. I looked at a truck a couple weeks ago that had a Utah title saying it was a '59, had a numbers matching VIN tag on the cab that was riveted on, had a build tag that was not original, and had a frame stamped VIN from a '58. I walked away because there were too many discrepancies.

Here in AZ, if you have a title for a cab with unmolested tags, you are usually OK if you put the cab on another truck and have the title follow the cab. Problems can arise otherwise, particularly if it is obvious that the tags have been switched.

Don't fret. As Dave recommends, check with your state DMV. If you can't get a title the 'normal' way, they might also have a process to get a bonded title or an abandoned vehicle title.

It could still be a great truck. Just be sure that you can get it titled before you buy it would be my advice.

Matt

The VIN looks spotwelded on, but I don't think I have privileges yet to attach a picture of it for you guys. It also looks like there's a little rust around it. I've also read that the factory spotwelded these on bare steel, so that also matches. From what I've read, you can't see the VIN on the frame without taking the cab off, correct?

Do you have a current CA pink slip with numbers that match the ones on the truck? If so, having dealt with the California DMV for many years, I'd suggest NOT kicking that hornet's nest! There's absolutely nothing in the world worse than a public servant with an attitude case, particularly in Commiefornia!

"Don't Ask- - - -Don't Tell" applies here. If somebody before you managed to satisfy the state that things were legitimate to the point that they issued a clear title, be thankful it happened, and don't go making any waves that might drown you!
Jerry

1. IF the VIN number on the VIN plate which is on the door jamb, matches the title, you have no registration problems.

2. It is not a Factory Napco original truck. (at least the cab/VIN is not). 1957 was the first year for Factory Napco. Factory Chevy Napco's were only available with 6 cylinder. There were still plenty of aftermarket upfitters in business. Someone could have upfitted at a vendor or purchased a 3/4 T kit. Lots of funny things happened back then. But it's all semi-normal to the era.

3. It should have a GVW higher than a 2WD if it is Factory. Not if upfitted. Also GVW value would indicate 1/2 or 3/4 cab.

4. The frame number is NOT hidden. Driver side top of frame near steering box. Being a recessed stamp, it gets painted over many times and filled in. You will be taking a huge risk if you uncover that number. If you then "repaint" you may be in handcuffs, so forget that until after you get registered. Many of the old timers at DMV are gone so you may breeze thru. If they find a mismatch on frame it should not be the end of the world unless that number comes up stolen. Where I live, they don't even see the truck when registering, just the paper.

5. If cab has a ebrake lever near trans shifter, that may indicate 3/4 cab.

6. Another possible tell tale of a factory Napco and for 1/2-3/4 T is the leaf spring count.

7. I wouldn't worry about it IF IF IF the VIN plate number matches the title. If the VIN plate is sort of resistance welded (spot welded), NOT mig, it is highly unlikely that some flipper welded it. BUT I have owned many 55-59 trucks and never seen a welded one. If I saw a pic, I could make a better judgment. The 1957 passenger car Assembly Manual I saw online, shows VIN plate is spot welded on.

8. The AD Napco trucks were only on 3/4T and up. Except 55.1

9. If you are paying a Napco price, you will want to be sure that the running gear, xfer case, hubs, shifter and etc is all Napco correct and the rear diff is era correct. Lots of so called Napco's out there. A Napco is NOT just any 57 4X4. Make sure there is no funny business under there. The Napco emblem is available new so see if you can tell if it's original to the era or newish. Like a part number on back of casting.

10. Probably should not pay a huge price for this one. If your DMV has satellite offices run by private contractors, I would go there. More money, but not a Government lifer. (or see no. 12) From what I read about CA is: Hiway Patrol officer checks vehicle at your house after you apply for registration. Don't have to bring truck to them (antique =39 years or older). Don't need emissions for pre 1975 truck.

11. GM did try spot welding VIN plates several times. Some had "DD" on the plates (Delivery Date). When the dealer stamped the Date, they broke the weld. They stopped stamping those plates. Bye Bye welded plates, hello Rosette rivets. If you ever see a pop rivet...red flag.

12. The best advise in CA is: If you buy it in CA and register in CA, join AAA and they do EVERYTHING FOR YOU in 15 minutes. Coffee, doughnuts and TV are free.

Thanks to all of the replies. Bartamos, your list is hugely helpful. To follow-up:
3. It has a GVW of 5,000, which I believe means 2wd, but let me know if that's wrong.
4. Do you have a picture of the location? I looked into the engine bay but couldn't see anything but rust.
6. Do you know the leaf spring counts? The rear has 6, the front looks like it has 8?
10. Without seeing the vehicle, what would be a reasonable price, if you could even spit ball with the info given.

3, 4,: You'll have to google, research and Wiki those Questions/Stats. I.E. Oldcarmanual project documents online. GM Heritage Center online. 55-59 Factory Assembly Manual and 55-59 Maintenance Manual (sold reprint or used.) Other members here and undercarriage pics online.

No. 6. Info already given. The frame is a "C" channel shape. The VIN , If Chevy and not GMC, if not painted over or rusted out, is on the top flange of the "C" channel frame near steering box. Forward or rearward of that area. Look straight down with hood open or look thru wheel well. Big bright flash light. Not your cell phone.

No. 10 is really impossible without a pic or five.
Factors are:
1. VIN legality
2. Rust
3. Completeness
4. Originality
5. Running/driving
6. Overall condition, dents , bondo, windows, dash, seats, chrome.
7. Rust
8. What motor and trans, smoke? leaks?
9. Tires and wheels
10. Patina
11. Rust
12. History
13. Rust
14. Seller motivation
15. Wife/partner support
16. Your funds now and for restore
17. Your DIY abilities and knowledge
18. CA Black plates?
19. CA Back fees? (non op status?)
20. Shipping

EDIT:

What is the actual wheel base 114" or 123"?

It has a obvious Napco rarity factor, it's tri five, 57 has the neatest grille, but it's a long bed. Another possible indicator of 3/4T. They only came in long beds.
1957 1/2 T is 5000 GVW, factory NAPCO is 5400/5600 GVW. As I said, an upfitted Napco is legit and will still say 5000 GVW.
I think 3/4 is 6900 GVW
1/2 and 3/4 2WD front leaf count= 6, Factory Napco= 7
1/2 2WD rear leaf count= 7, Factory Napco= 8
3/4 2WD rear leaf count= 9, Factory Napco= 10

All kinds of other stuff designates a borne 1/2 or 3/4, brake size, rear ratio, ....

P.S. I don't know anybody who would let you title the truck without you paying them the money first. I would not.

The frame is stamped twice, once above the front axle between the steering box and radiator and then again under the cab to the rear of the Master Cylinder. The frame number will not have the "V" (V8) or "3" (Model) stamped, it will start with the Year, then Plant letter and then the rest of the s/n. The stamped numbers are about 1/4" tall and span about 3".

Also if this is a true V8 truck as indicated by the title number it will have the lower front motor mount brackets riveted to the crossmember, not bolted.

Mike B

Jerry is absolutely correct, don't ask any questions. In fact if you are a AAA member you could transfer the vehicle there, where people are happy to see you. When I registered my '53 had to hire a private DMV service to get through the mire of multiple trips to DMV, getting more paperwork each time.