The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Frame Rivet Replacement

Hi all - I hope this is the right spot to post this.

I have a missing rivet on a frame cross-member (right behind engine in Passenger wheel-well. Can anyone suggest a replacement bolt? I will be going for safety soon (hopefully) and I know this is going to be an issue.

Thanks!

Can you get to it to peen a new rivet in? If so Flat Rivets will have what you need...Look them up.

Mike B

Thanks Mike - I will keep that in mind as an option, but I am not very confident in my peening abilities . I can turn a wrench though!

Just put a grade 8 bolt in and call it done...

Mike B

That's the plan, anyone know what size bolt?

Ream the hole for a precision fit shoulder bolt. Any other bolt will just fill the hole so you don't have to look at it.
Jerry

Jerry, what sort of bolt are you recommending exactly? Can you share a picture or link?
The shoulder bolts I'm familiar with in the machine shop have Allen heads and the threads are one bolt size smaller than the precision ground shank size, 3/8" shank and 5/16-18 threads for example. I would not use these as frame bolts and have never seen them or an equivalent used in a frame.
I can sort of imagine a normal looking bolt with well defined shank length and diameter but don't know if they exist, we'll might be something special made special applications, but can they be found easily and are they affordable, is this what your describing?

My answer to the original question; put one grade 8 bolt in (as Mike said), its only missing one. Better answer would be flanged bolt and self locking flanged nut, as is/was commonly used on frames now or not long ago. Best answer is a new hot rivet set quickly with a pneumatic riveting hammer. Also best but unlikely to happen is cold rivet set with hydraulic squeeze riveter as the factory did.

Grigg

The Allen shoulder bolt is exactly what I'm talking about. Ream the hole so it's a very snug slip fit, or preferably a slight press fit, to prevent movement between the parts the bolt is joining, then use a flat washer, a nut, and red Loctite to make the fastener as permanent as possible. Use a shoulder length just long enough to penetrate both of the parts being joined. It's the next best thing to a hot rivet. If any clearance is left between the bolt shank and the mating parts, they will slip and slide under suspension loading and shear more rivets.
Jerry

Does the reduced thread size bother you? For example nominally 3/8" rivet hole reamed to fit tight on a 3/8" shoulder bolt. But you only have 5/16" threads, and they're undercut where they meet the shoulder portion. This is my concern, and in many cases I can't t see going up a whole bolt size with the then much larger shank and head just to get back to a reasonable thread size.

Thanks Grigg, Jerry. Any idea what the size of the original rivets would have been? Just looking to start the hunt in the right direction. Thanks

The rivet hole should be the same size as the hole so there \would be no play. Jeffrey

Wow! Easy here boys, it ain't no Railroad bridge. The strength is a non issue. You are talking thousands of lbs strength (uh like 3/8= over 6000 lbs!) X 4 or more bolts to hold a cross member that might carry 200 lbs. A grade 5 will be plenty. A 3/8 bolt has a 3/8 unthreaded shank. Use that like a shoulder bolt with a lock washer and nut. It would be nice to have the unthreaded shank go all the way thru all the pieces. You don't need locking compound for that kind of vibration levels. The real issue is what will the Gendarmes want? They know nothing about rivet/bolt strength. So you may want to use a Stovebolt/Carriage bolt head that looks like a rivet. All big structures now, bridges, buildings, etc. are all bolted. No rivets anymore. Except maybe a few in autos where they want to hold a panel in place while boding cures. They also use self tapping screws, MIG & spot welding, and a lot of bolts.
Of course the Aerospace industry still uses aluminum rivets along with spot welding.

Not particularly, since the shank is carrying the shear load. Most of the crossmember rivets are 1/4" diameter, so reaming up to a 3/8" shoulder to eliminate any egg shape in the hole is increasing the shear area by 50%, and the 5/16" thread should be plenty strong since all it's doing is holding the bolt into the hole. The whole works is bigger and stronger than the original fastener. The whole idea of riveting is to eliminate ALL the possibility of movement between the parts by filling the entire hole. A reamed hole and a tight-fitting shoulder bolt is the next best thing.
Jerry

5/16= over 4000 lbs shear. But as Jerry says, it's not in shear. The 3/8 is.
Goach, don't dwell on the word "ream", Jerry loves that word because he actually has a big set of reamers. Who has that? Just "drill it" a little bigger if you need to. You may not.
No sane person has big, solid rivet equipment laying around the house. Just bolt it and go fishing.

Victor Machinery Co. www.victornet.com Chucking reamers are about $10.00 apiece, and they work very well in a variable-speed drill motor.

Thanks, that explains a lot; seems I'm not sane...

Thanks for the explanation Jerry.
I now fully understand what you're recommending and don't really disagree but It's not a method I would choose.

Grigg

Sounds like I'll start with 3/8s and see where that gets me. Thanks Gents!

Goach2,
Just measure the hole, or test fit with a few different bolt sizes.
Don't think you shared a picture or model of truck so your guess on bolt/rivet size is better than ours.

thanks for asking this question, and thanks Mike B for the lead on the rivet company. I've been looking for a place like this for quite a while.

Grigg, a joke. Just like "Who has that?" I envy all that equipment. Like Jealous.