The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Balancer concerns

I have been piecing together a 235 for my 46. It is a 61 block. I am using a adapter plate to run the old style water pump. The harmonic balancer I have has a Grove wore in it where the lip seal rides.not to concerned as I can weld it up and turn it down to make it smooth again. I am more concerned about the size or O.D. The pulley ( belt sheave) is 6-3/4" O.D. And 5/8" wide . The directions says this is not recommended ,as it will turn the water pump to fast. I am not sure if I measured it the way the directions refer to. My balancer is 7-1/4" O.D. I am not sure if the directions refer to the pulley size O.D or the balancer O.D. It's all made together but the weighted part is larger than the pulley.

Welding on the balancer hub will probably ruin the rubber inserts in the damper. Use a speedy sleeve instead- - - -the same one that fits the small block V8 also works on a stovebolt balancer.

I just measured a 216 balancer with the hand crank lugs and a 5/8" belt groove and it measures 5 3/4" at the OD of the pulley sheave. That translates to an 18" circumference at the outside edge of the pulley sheave. Your 6 3/4" sheave will have a circumference of 21". That's a 16% increase in belt speed, which probably won't make a big difference in the speed of the water pump, which is already turning faster than the crankshaft even with the smaller pulley. A 1/2" belt, which is probably what your water pump needs to run, won't ride at the top of the 5/8" belt groove anyway, which will slow down the belt speed somewhat.
Jerry

Thanks for the info. I don't like speedy sleeves all that well.i have had them to wear though very fast in a industrial use. The equipment I am referring to was a slow speed gear box, but did run non stop.I know the engine is a much different application,and all though it will turn much faster, will only run short pieriods of time. I guess I was not to concearned about the rubber,thinking I could keep the heat to around 300 degrees at the rubber itself. Maybe that would be to hot for the rubber. I do have a 216 with a balancer on it. I never thought to measure it, but would have still wanted some advice.

I've run speedy sleeves for thousands of miles without a problem, and since they're stainless, they're far harder and more durable than the original balancer hub. If you use some sort of V block or a piece of angle iron to spin the hub on and a MIG, you might get by with welding the groove. That would only be my choice of repair if a sleeve was not available.
Jerry

I have the same problem with the groove- but the speedy sleeve that was already on my balancer had actually compressed into the groove on the balancer, creating yet another groove!

Perhaps JB Weld to fill the groove on the balancer, sand then press on a new speedy sleeve?

How about simply cutting off the old speedy sleeve and installing a new one?

Seal weld the balancer to the timing chain cover - nothing will get past it then!

I always fill the groove with JB weld or red Loctite before installing a sleeve. Another trick is to put a spacer behind the seal before installing it, to move the lip to an unworn area of the snout. 1/16" should be plenty.
Jerry

I agree, even if the rubber insert appears to survive welding, IMHO it may harden, which changes how it reacts to crankshaft harmonic distortion.
A sleeve is safer.

Balancer Issue

replaced a 216 with a 235 in a 46 Chevy StyleMaster car
- but new balancer hits frame (bigger then old 216 balancer)
- is the "HotRodLincoln" fix for this???
- ..i can't find that tread...after reading it
- Damp'r Dude says a 250 balancer will wrk..but need to drill crank for bolt to keep it on...
Thanks...Thanks Alot...

You can use a 216 balancer on a 235.

Yep, just put the 216 balancer on the 235. I can't imagine how a 250 balancer could possibly work- - - -the pulley sheaves are in the wrong place. I make up an all new balancer using a 307 V8 damper and a 2-groove pulley for a big block V8, reversed so the pulley overlaps the balance ring. The hub on the 307 balancer needs to be shortened about 1/4", and a corresponding amount needs to be machined on the OD so the balancer hub doesn't damage the seal. It's a fairly simple machining operation, but it's not a bolt-on fit.
Jerry

well, issue with using old 216 balancer:

1) water pump pully is 7" diameter, 3/8 belt
...and old 216 balancer its for larger belt (5/8?)and about 6" diameter...
2) thought i read "dont use 216 balancer on 235" ...longer stroke etc....

Find a balancer for a 1954 216. It has the narrow belt. The people who rave on about the supposed 216/235 balancer differences are a little hard to understand, with the seat of their pants covering their lips. Inline six engines are inherently balanced- - - -they could run without a damper at all and have few, if any issues.
Jerry

There were no 1954 216s.

My seat of my pants are not covering my lips. You you should look for a 1953-1955st truck engine balancer. I am not sure that a car balancer from 53-54 is the same diameter, but it might be (I'll look it up if you ask - I will not make fun of you or others). They would be the correct diameter and they would have the 3/8" belt-groove.

I have been putting 216 balancers on my customers 235's for 30 years and have not seen any problems.
What are you doing about the water pump?
If you use the adapter and use a 216 water pump, then you can stick with the 5/8" belt all around.

It might not matter but the belt groove diameter changed to 3/8" from 5/8" on all 1953 engines (216 & 235).

OOPS- - -typo! I should have said "1953 216".
Jerry

To find a '54 216, you will need a backhoe to excavate away the tons of hen's teeth to uncover it. No such bird. '53 was the last year for the 216. (Can't believe I beat Pre '68 Dave to that one. )

No, I don't think I want to correct the prior messages after all, I think I'll just let HRL be wrong.

Dang Jerry! You corrected your oversight before I finished typing and posting my wiseacre retort, officially rendering it moot.
Therefore, in accordance to the well-established by-laws of this site, you were not officially "wrong", just momentarily fumble fingered.
Carl

Thanks, Carl! "Once- - - - -long ago- - - - -I thought I was wrong- - - - -but it turned out I was mistaken!"

I told my wife that 40 years ago, and she's never let me forget it!
LOL!
Jerry

- i'll give the original 216 balancer & new pump pulley a shot
- water pump is the new expensive short-shaft

.... an look around for a 54 balancer with 3/8

ok...
i'll go put the 216 balancer 6 1/2 diameter, 5/8 belt pulley
back on ...
with the 7 1/4 wtrpump pulley with the 3/8 belt

...then mess with the decrepit vacuum assist shifter..!

Where on earth are you guys finding old 216/235 balancers that you are able to put into service? Every single balancer that I have come across (a total of six, so far), after careful inspection, show serious galling/wear/deformation from having walked all over the crankshaft...a few even had evidence of dropping out onto on the highway!

No idea of the actual condition, but I just counted 11 of them on Ebay in about 10 minutes. I'm still convinced it's a much better idea to fabricate a new one out of bits and pieces.
Jerry

I think that anything would be better than putting one of these old, wobbly ones back on an engine...!

Unfortunately, after much searching I never was able to locate the tech article (that has been mentioned a few times on this forum) that explained how to modify a brand new 292 balancer to fit a 235 engine.

Keep searching- - - -it's an impossible task. The belt sheaves are in the wrong place on a 292 balancer. It looks like a 230/250 balancer might be able to be modified to work on a 216/235 application, but my gripe about that modification is that the rubber ring that does the dampening also carries the stress of pulling the belts. I think that's a bad design, although, apparently, GM was satisfied with doing it that way.

I've got the parts on order to make up another 2-sheave balancer using the 6" V8 unit, and a pulley for a big block V8 which doesn't put any stress on the balance ring. This time I won't get hassled into selling it before it's finished!
Jerry

A few years back I got a 292, 2 groove balancer from Australia and modified it to fit my 302-just had to shorten it a little, might still work, I could probably find the PN if needed.

Ed

Ed, did you have to narrow the thickness of the belt sheave area of the 292 balancer? The ones I've seen would have to be narrowed considerably to keep the sheave area from rubbing the timing cover.
Jerry