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hey gang, im putting a 69 dz 302 into my 61 apache. it has a six banger and three on the tree, having hard time finding v8 frame mounts. any ideas? didn't they come with v8? what to do?

What's a "dz"? The mid-60's V8's had mounts on all four corners of the engine, and a free-hanging transmission. Some of the trucks had a horseshoe-shaped mount up front and mounts at both sides of the bellhousing , while others had "bird leg" supports connecting to brackets at the front corners of the engine.

Your best bet will probably be to use an aftermarket tubular universal mount at the mid-engine position, especially if you're planning to run some sort of automatic transmission that needs a support under the tailshaft.
Jerry

Rare engine. Factory de-stroked 327 (283 crankshaft in a 327 block). I think Chevy only made them for a year and a half to two years, came in Camaros. They would absolutely fly. Always heard them described as the DZ engine.

Your issue is the mounting points on the truck frame. I don't know if 1961 trucks came with V-8s. As Jerry said, either a aftermarket mount, or would have to fabricate mounts. Fabricating is do-able, (we did them on round track cars for years), but a little tricky.

But that is a wicked engine.

Mike

The 61 did come with a V8. C10= 283. Big trucks= 348. As Jerry says, mounted up front and truck bell housing. Your 69 may have side mounts used with "perches" or "towers" and three hole motor mounts. Don't know what trans you are using. 4 speed is cantilevered probably and needs truck bell or other depending on what cross members you have now. You may need the universal tubular one added as said. Pretty easy to do all that. Be sure to double check what threaded motor mount holes you have on that "special" motor before proceeding. Obviously you will need to hang motor in there with perches to see where to attach them and what mods/spacers are needed. Mock it up to see all the clearances that are necessary. Radiator, steering, exhaust, firewall, etc., etc.
Have you done this kind of stuff before?

You can sell your DZ and cover the entire cost of a V8 swap. Contrary to folklore the 3" stroke DZ in a 3800 pound Camaro was a DOG and could only be salvaged with AT LEAST 4.56 gears and 4.88 was better. I used 5.14's in mine. Still have a couple from when we were limited to 312ci at local round tracks. We wised up and ran a 327 truck crank in a 283 block (home made 307) and absolutely kicked the 302's butts off the corners with our 3.25 stroke.

Coilover, you would be correct on the LOW end with your set up.
But wide open a mile down the road, that 302 would be gone.

Chaz71,

I would be curious as to what rear end gear the 61 Apache might be/have in it. That 302 would sure be a cool deal in this truck, provided you want to make it fit, and the truck has a stiff enough rear gear, which it probably does. If it came with a 6-cylinder, then I figure you either do aftermarket mount, or fabricate, to use the V-8. As bartamos said, it can be done, setting it down in there, mocking it up, and a whole bunch of measuring and figuring.

Mike

If this motor is a true 1969 DZ serial coded block, it is big revving and big money. Too valuable to put in the truck unless a show truck. It is not a street motor, It is very fast at high RPM but sluggish at low. Big piston, short stroke. Used and invented for the Z-28 code Camaro for SCCA racing. (305 cu in limit) The 69 had finned valve covers and possible aluminum high rise intake. I believe the "D" was for the Duntov solid lifter cam. The motor is near legend. 290HP. Big valves, many speed features. It does have a "dog" reputation amongst some who want off-the-line acceleration. 1969 is THE year to have if it has the codes and casting numbers correct.
It just seems like it is the wrong motor for a torsion bar, coil spring, three speed pick up. But...what the heck.

I'm collecting parts to build a 252 cubic inch small block Chevy that will live very comfortably at 8K+ RPM thanks to a roller cam and a rev kit. It's going to involve a 283 crankshaft destroked to 2 7/8" in a 305 block. (Same stroke as a 289 Ford) There's a NASCAR tool steel connecting rod that makes that conversion possible.

The 302 (actually 301.46) cubic inch Chevy you're talking about came in the early Z-28 Camaros and it was fast, but had very little torque. We were boring 283's .125" oversize to 4" way back in the early 1960's to make those engines long before Chevy thought of it. We were honest and called 'em "301's", however.
Jerry

I will concede that a 3" stroke engine in a light car would be a contender but the Camaro IS NOT a light car. That is the reason the smaller cube 302 Mustangs could make a good showing against a 350 Camaro was that the Mustang USED to be a much lighter car. The Camaro with factory gearing was not fast on either drag or top end. With gearing in the 3's the air drag on the square nose was greater than the 302 could push past about 120mph. My friend of 50 years has a Yenko Camaro and that sucker IS FAST with the torque a 427 can put out. As someone said the 302 was put in street cars to qualify to be used in the CanAm series and was never meant to be a performance car. Drop by the shop sometime and I'll take you for a spin--bring a book to read while we get up to 120. Primer is where mirrors are removed.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/IMG_4028%201.jpg.html
http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/IMG_4026%201.jpg.html
http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/IMG_4025%201.jpg.html

Wouldn't have just black mirror gaskets with black screws or just black plugs looked better? It is a nice Camaro, very valuable year.

I'll take some of the blame for this, (not all, but some).....how does any of our discussion help chaz71 get a V8 into his truck? If that's what he wants in there, more power to him. There are reasons there is chocolate, vanilla, AND strawberry. Out of everybody that's on here, somebody, somewhere, has done what chaz71 is wanting to do.

I'm doing all original (or original repro). To some folks, that's crazy. Why not hot rod it, disc brake it, open driveshaft it? Cause that is not what I want. What chaz71 is doing, is perfect, if that's what HE wants to do.

(I'll get off my soapbox now)..............

Mike

Agree with you Mike. As a slight slant though, I assume all posters know they have a right to do what they want. I assume they know we don't send the police over there to arrest them. I assume that all posters know that advice as to "what to do" is sometimes 180 deg out, or: don't do that, do this, or: better to sell and...etc.
I think a good post is like this one, I.E. He got advice on "what to do", as he requested, and a mixture of other info and anecdotal "what to do" suggestions. It's all good. Posters make up their own mind using all the relevant (matches their preference) and all the incidental info.
I hope he sees that many are so excited about his possible holy grail motor that they want him to know it could be super valuable if he is not in love with putting it in his truck.
I have always made the best decisions by getting any and all opinions/info. But I make the decision.
No one here has said not to put a V8 in the truck. I love V8's.

The 1969 SCCA Trans-American Championship was one 8 out of 12 times by Camaro DZ 302. 4 times by Mustang Boss 302.

In 3 of the 4 Mustang wins, Camaro was second.
In 3 of the Camaro wins, a Camaro was second.
Camaro won the last 7 races in a row which means it blew the doors off the Mustang that year.

No argument that the DZ was the best of the 302's when wound tight and in a light car. Smokey Yunnick got almost 500hp out of one or over 1.5hp/ci but was not a killer engine as offered in a factory optioned Camaro or at least the one in the 69 has not been one since it was bought new in May of 69. Has all of 28k miles on it now. Still stand by the advice to sell the DZ for a premium price and use an engine with more torque for the 61 pickup. A high winding engine buzzing in your ear is not near as pleasant as one that can actually turn a corner and not have to be downshifted at least two gears to keep from shaking and pinging. As a novelty toy one can buy pricey C12(or 14) gas for a Z with it's pop up pistons and small combustion chambers but it's just NOT a good pickup engine.

thanks for the input gang. I do own mopars, I have a 71 rr 440 60 over with tunnel ram and two 4's stickin thru the hood. also 1970 super bee, 383 #'s matching, also 69 a1o8 van with 340 six pk. I have a clue about power lol. I don't care if the dz's not a tourq motor. putin 4 speed behind it. I love the look of the 61 apache. its not a daily driver! its a toy like the reast of them.car shows an such.i should have said oler chevy small block ther lies my problem.

Bartamos, very well stated

Bueno Amigo.

I think that engine will do just fine in an Apache. It's a cool engine with a lot of history behind it, especially given the fact that it is a large journal small block 302. Back in the late 70s, there was a classmate that had a built DZ302 in a 1969 Chevelle Wagon and it turned every bit of 11.99s. Your truck, so have fun with your build.

update, scored a v8 mount. horseshoe type.took dz to shop. its already 60 over. he could go 70. I said no. the crank, rods, heads ect. are goinn into nother block. it will be a wana be dz lol.

With an angle grinder and a good set of original-looking stamping dies, that replacement block can be anything you want it to be. The collector's market for WW II Mauser rifles has that problem now, with a bunch of authentic-looking fakes that have been carefully refinished and stamped with fake "waffenampts" (proof marks) to fool the suckers!
Jerry

Then American Motors brought out the AMX with the 390 AMC V8, and all the competition saw was tail lights!
Jerry

im not faking the block, it is what it is, its just a hotrod lol

A somewhat expensive, but more ethical way of salvaging a scarce block is installing 3/32" wall sleeves in all the cylinders to bring it back to standard bore. It helps if you happen to have a boring bar like I do, so the only real cost is for 8 sleeves. Paying a machine shop to install them increases the cost exponentially. Some Camaro restorer might be willing to pay you good money for that block, so don't scrap it.
Jerry