Would like some thoughts on this booster and MC. It's a dual diaphragm booster with a dual MC with the same bore as my original. Thinking of mounting it under the bus on the frame rail.
Hy fclaridge, since you asked, I would look for a setup that will bolt in place rather than something that you will have to adapt. Their master cylinder description would have you believe that it is compatible with every braking system ever designed, not without knowing what it is originally designed for, and supplying whatever residual pressure valves are required for your application, hope that helps.
Just make sure the bore size is the same as your original mc, otherwise the proportioning will be off. I looked at the listing and the bore size isn't stated. You may want to email the seller.
1950 4100 - unrestored and driven weekly for almost no reason at all.
The OE MC is so different than most of what's out there to get to a more modern system that I don't see much other choice than to mount it remotely. My friend and I did talk about keeping the OE MC in place and using the pedal pivot on it and extending the pushrod through the MC back to the new MC and booster. I've seen a couple of setups like this and they seem to work just fine.
Sounds like a neat idea - however you'll want to make sure that whatever you use for the pushrod is very sturdy. In fact you may need to up-size the diameter of it since it will be significantly longer.
1950 4100 - unrestored and driven weekly for almost no reason at all.
Yes, I will certainly make it from steel and possible sleeve it with some pipe material to increase its strength in the center section. Shouldn't be too hard to fabricate.
that sounds like a good possibility! I may have to do something like that for my 2-ton flatbed. I would like a dual reservoir setup (although I just went through my original setup and it seems to work fine)
Here is a set up that I found the other day that looks like it would bolt right up to the existing location, has a 1 1/8 bore MC and the pivot for the pedal is built in. It is kind of spendy though at $425.
And this is the set up I'm going to order today to install in my bus as described above by using the pedal pivot on the original MC and fabricating a new pushrod that goes through the old MC and hooks up to the new MC mount a little further back on the frame rail. At $199 it's a significant savings for me.
The expensive one only has a 7" booster too. 8" would be 30% better anyway. I'm glad you're not shying away from a little design work. So many people avoid anything that isn't a bolt-on solution.
OK, I got my set up today. Original MC is cleaned out and painted. Here is a pic of them. Essentially the new booster and MC will be mounted 2-3' back from the original MC. Original MC will be bolted in the original location and used strictly for keeping the brake pedal in the same place with the pivot point. I have some steel stock material that I will machine on my lathe to make it the right length and thread it to mate up with the new booster. Then I can run the new brake lines to the front and rear from the distribution block under the new MC that also holds the brake light pressure switch and proportioning valve. New Booster is an 8" dual diaphragm and the new MC is 2 chamber with a 1 1/8 bore. I think it's looking good so far for the swap. Sorry about the night time pic.
Sounds promising. I understand how you plan on using the old MC body to hold the pedal at its original pivot point. That sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure how you're connecting your new linkage rod to the pedal, but maybe it would be obvious of I crawled under my truck and looked at things.
Here is a diagram from the shop manual of the pedal attachment. Shouldn't be hard at all to put them together. Thread the end of the pushrod and attach with a heim joint.
Right, but won't the original MC be in the way? Do you plan on spacing the heim joint out to the side to clear the old MC? I would be careful about having too much bending moment on a single-shear heim attachment--especially in a breaking application.
Grigg is correct. I cleared the entire inside of the old MC and will run the shaft through it so the connection to the pedal is inline with the new booster and MC. Here is a mock up of the shaft through the MC and a pic of the brake pedal connection.
Ah, that's great then. I didn't realize the MC was bored through on both ends. I think you've certainly got a solid plan, that should work great. How soon can you finish it and tell us how amazingly well works?
Well, wiring is first. I have the new harness about 1/2 installed and then hookup and test. Then, new exhaust will be done. After that then we are doing the transmission swap to a TH400 so it's more comfortable and enjoyable to drive. Then after all that we'll get the brakes redone. So probably in the next 4-5 weeks? Hopefully sooner. I'm dying to drive it out on the road.
What diameter is the pushrods and how long do you expect it to be? Some calculations for buckling might be in order. My SWAG is it looks a little flimsy as is at the appropriate length shown.
You could use a piece of tube about 1" OD with bushings welded in the end for the connections. Within reason on length I don't expect that would buckle.
If you just want to try it have someone press on the pedal with all their might and watch the pushrod, then with your hand try to deflect the center with moderate pressure, if it bends try a larger diameter.
That's a good idea. One I've been thinking about, but the bushings you suggested really made it work in my head. Either that or use a 3/4" piece of angle iron and have the rod sit in the angle and weld it in that way. That might work too. The rod is 5/8" diameter cold roll steel. I haven't measured the length of where I want to mount the booster yet, but that length looks pretty desirable on the table. I just need to look at and determine what I can actually do on the frame rail. Thanks for the suggestions Grigg.
I'm looking at info that says solid rod is stronger than tubing in the same diameter. Makes sense. These rod ends are pretty cool. Was the suggestion, go to a 1" tube with these ends for the proper thread and get a stronger pushrod for the set up? Or machine the solid rod to accept these ends and weld on?
Getting it all set up and testing the deflection while pressing the pedal is a good idea. I'll use the 5/8" rod to start with and see how that goes. From there if improvements should be made the measurements will be all set and variations to the pushrod would be simple enough to fabricate.
Besides, Those threaded rod ends are so cool I want to get some just to make something with them. Lots of ideas for some other things I'm working on too.
The 1" was a guess at plenty stout, possible 3/4" or 5/8" works OK too depending on the length.
Solid is stronger but a straight tube is also very good in compression. The benefit to a tube is good stiffness with less weight compared solid rod, more so at the larger diameters. 1" tube would Let the brake pedal return a little faster with less mass or momentum than 1" solid.
Use whatever size rod ends and or weld in tube bungs to suit the attachment points.
The weight issue is a good one. I see they have a 7/8" tubing end. I think I'll go 7/8" to give myself some clearance through the MC. Cut, weld and assemble.
I measured the distance and got a rough idea how long the shaft will be and it's going to be 15-20". I don't think that 5/8" solid rod will have too much deflection, but will see. I also need to make a bracket for the new booster to mount to. One that will move the center out to line up with the pedal assembly. I'll get to do more on that tomorrow.
Nothing new as of late. I'm just in the finishing stages of rewiring the bus and then the brakes are next. I measured and made the template for the mounting bracket. Will try to get that fabricated this week. Not real complicated either.
Bolting to the frame rail is going to be easy as well. I've identified three body mounting bolts that I can use and replace the bolts with some longer to account for the thicker plate. So with that location it puts me at a pretty short rod going through the old MC to the foot pedal pivot. All is still looking well for the project.
1/2 inch cold rolled over a 3ft span would be way strong enough so your 5/8 rod is PLENTY. It takes very little pedal pressure on a boosted brake but even if you lost boost it would still be fine. We have used hanger bushings at the halfway point not to prevent deflection but to dampen flop on a rough road. On a 1930 Plymouth that had a very crowded underside with the exhaust, transmission cooler, and an a/c condenser with fan we had to mount the m/c just in front of the rear axle. The rod clevis on the pedal was moved to the opposite side of the pedal pivot pin so it pulled instead of pushed and then a bell crank was mounted to the frame just in front of the booster with just a short actuator rod from bell crank to booster. 3/8 rod, that PULLS, and is over half the length of the car has been working fine for 10 years. There are remote mount power brake boosters than can be mounted anywhere and we have put these in the trunk on very narrow cars with a cluttered area on the left side between the transmission and frame rail.
Here is how General Motors solved the problem on a 1.5T (or maybe 2T) truck back in 1937. The master cylinder was mounted BACKWARD on the frame and then a lever with a pivot had a short rod to the m/c and a rod that PULLED from the brake pedal.
Very Cool. Yes I am sure it will all work out great. I have just the dash wires and the engine harness to install and then it will be the brakes next for sure. Looking forward to getting this all together so I can drive it.
Fred,my friend with the '59 Viking bought a pickup-truck booster M.C. Combo kit,and threw away the hydrovac parts. when he installed it,the engine didn't run nearly as smooth as it did with the original system. That was minor compared to the Major problem... The bus would Not Stop,and the pedal only had a 1/8" play,before it was Rock Solid! I Stood on the Pedal with Both Feet,and only the left front,(closest wheel to the M.C. "grabbed". Luckily,we were on level ground,with no obstacles. He just purchased a P-30,with electric assist hydroboost. and all-wheel disc brakes.-$500.00,with Brand-New Michelins!
What was the bore size of the MC and what booster did he have? I have a dual diaphragm booster with a MC that has the same bore as the original. I'm guessing the pickup truck MC is smaller.
next is to get the booster mounting plate measured, drilled and welded to the frame mounting plate.
I also got the gauges set up too and ready for wires. And made a custom piston knob for the headlight switch. A little off topic, but I think they turned out nice. Dash needs some cleanup and paint though. Later this week.
I just installed a 1 1/4'' dual master with a 7'' dual diaphram booster on a 4 speed manual 52 4400. To clear the e brake on the transmission I had 6 1/2''x1'' drill rod posts bolted to on those frame brackets use for manual masters used with a auto trans set up. The booster was $45, the master was $30, the bracket was $65. the post were scrap metal. The out come was a heavy truck with light on the pedal brakes which were satisfactory.
Well I got a little more done today on the brake system. My motor lost a lobe on the camshaft and long story short it's at the machine shop due to the metal from the cam grinding everything up, literally. So I thought I'd get moving on the brakes while I wait. I got the MC housing mounted, brake pedal set up with the heim joint hooked up to check for clearance. That is basically as far as I've gotten today after cleaning up and repainting the engine compartment. I'll do the bracket work this week for installing the new Booster and MC. Looking good so far. Here's a few pics. Engine Compartment work: http://s107.photobucket.com/user/fc...47-EA4A6BB98C7C_zpsytbxi8qp.jpg.html?o=7
Well, I went to line up the MC yesterday to weld the new Bracket and found that someone had ransacked my bus and stole a bunch of parts out of it. Including the new booster and MC. So I have to wait until the new one arrives that I just ordered today.
I just installed a 1 1/4'' dual master with a 7'' dual diaphram booster on a 4 speed manual 52 4400. To clear the e brake on the transmission I had 6 1/2''x1'' drill rod posts bolted to on those frame brackets use for manual masters used with a auto trans set up. The booster was $45, the master was $30, the bracket was $65. the post were scrap metal. The out come was a heavy truck with light on the pedal brakes which were satisfactory.
What was the original application for the booster and MC that you used? Do you have any pics? I'm not sure what you're describing with the "drill rods".
Well, I went to line up the MC yesterday to weld the new Bracket and found that someone had ransacked my bus and stole a bunch of parts out of it. Including the new booster and MC. So I have to wait until the new one arrives that I just ordered today.
That is terrible. I can't believe someone would do that! What use would a random tweaker have for such parts?
