The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Task Force V8 vs I6 ??

I apologize in advance if this violates the flavor of the "stovebolt" but I swapped the 235 for an early 327 in my 56 TF (which seems to be creating more of a headache???). Anyway, I am trying to confirm if the radiator core support (or baffle as it is referred to in the manual) mounting pads of the I6 is a different size than the V8. I have been told they are different to accommodate the "frame raise" and then others said they are not?? I have some of the other parts to make this conversion work but need to get it straight before moving on to the assembly of the front end.
ps

Thanks again, nothing against I6's but just thought it would be cool with an 8. Also I have learned a lot from this site and scored some cool stuff for my truck (3200 Napco upfit) here.
Thanks
bb

No problems here. V8's were an option in those years anyway. Good luck with the install.

the rad was positioned further back for the V8 with sheet metal shrouding" above and below, as seen here .... you should be able to easily put the 327 in with the original style front "bird legs" mounts, no headaches with the rad in the 6 cyl position, then add an aftermarket shroud like on this 56 panel [or suffer overheating] .... you might also get aftermarket sidemount setups, but those usually interfere with the parking brake mechanism

Bill

BB, you probably already know this but just in case...if you go with the aftermarket shroud, be sure that between 1/3 and 1/2 of the tips of the fan blade are exposed and not encased in the shroud or it won't work properly. Bill's picture illustrates a correct installation. A common misconception is to think that the entire fan is supposed to be recessed inside the shroud.

Good luck,

Matt

Good advice listed above. Be aware that nothing from the 235-6
can be used for the V-8 conversion with the possible exception of the clutch, depending on what V-8 flywheel you use. The V-8 conversion is one of the most popular subjects covered on this site. Lots of information here. I made up a spreadsheet several years ago listing the parts used in the conversion. If you think it is something you can use, send me an email and I'll send it to you. Depending on where you are in "socal" you could also look at mine.
Fred

Thank you for the responses and information. The problem I am having has to do with the radiator mounting pads along with the inner fender wells. There appear to be 2 different mounting pads (one V8 and one I6)for the radiator core support mount?? The inner fender wells have additional holes for the option to use the location closer to the firewall but they do not line up as easily as that, mine are off by a couple of inches??

I have not started drilling new holes yet but I am getting close!! I thought this would be an easy, bolt together deal.... leaning patience's as I go.... :):)
bb

bb, if you move the rad back to those holes in the inner fenders, you need to knock the mount brackets off the frame and move them back too [assembly manual, RPO409], then you will need to fab up the shrouding above and below the rad - much easier to use a shroud so it will be a bolt-in deal, you may even be able to find an early factory shroud like I found for my 58

Bill

Flxible
It looks like I need to get the mounting correct before I can even see if the cooling is any good?? Seems to be very little information about the V8 mounts and if they are different from the I6 mounts. I have a very nice set of I6 mounts or brackets that I will trade for a V8 set (assuming they are different???)

:):)

not sure which mounts you refer to, but the "birds legs" are different I6 vs V8, and if you use the front mounts the "L" brackets on the front of the V8 are different than the I6 side ones .... with the front mounts you also need to add the brackets on the front cross member that the pegs mount to - the repro mounts I linked [available from most vendors] include the brackets for both ends of the pegs, easy deal and they fit right

if you have the rad in the I6 position with the V8, there will be way too much space fan to rad, in that configuration you must have a shroud or it'll overheat at low speeds and city traffic

Bill

I moved my radiator to the 6 cyl. position and run an electric fan in my '56. I cut the fender mounts off the original radiator support and left them in the 8 cyl. position then added the radiator support from a parts truck in the forward position.

BB,

The Core Support barckets that are riveted to the top of the frame are different V8 to I6. When the core support is moved 5" back on the frame for the V8 installation the brackets become shorted due to the uphill slope of the frame rail. These brackets will be very hard to find as they were riveted to the frame at the factory on V8 equiped trucks only. With that said they should be easy to make using the I6 brackets as a sample. Just level the frame and then put a level on top of the I6 bracket and measure the height of the new V8 bracket that will be 5" back. I believe the bolt/rivet holes are already punched in the frame for these brackets.

The fan shroud that Bill showed is for a 58. The 58 and 59 trucks only used the I6 loctaion for the core support so the V8's needed a deep shroud. The 55-57 trucks were the only trucks to have the dual location option and their V8 shrouds are only about 3" deep (big trucks are a different story).

Hope this helps,

Mike B

Mike B
You shed a great deal of light on a very dark (i.e. little known) subject. Thank you. Now if you can tell me where to find a set of those little ba$tards this weekend, I would buy you a beer my friend.
bb

If you choose not to move the radiator support, you can use fan spacers to bring the fan closer to the radiator.

The V-8 mount assemblies are available at the Truck Shop in Orange.
Brothers and most other aftermarket suppliers have them also.
Fred

Fred
Thank you for the reply, but I need the V8 radiator core support mounts. Anyway, this was unknown to me when I started this project that there is a difference in size between the V8 radiator mounts and the I6 mounts. It appears that the I6 mounts are about a 1/2 inch taller than the V8 ones, which would throw off the fender alignment.
bb

In my opinion there is no reason to relocate or replace the core support. It is a whole lot of effort and expense with little or no gain. If you were able to find a V-8 core support you would still need the top cover plate which is different from the 6 cyl panel.
I did my conversion 15 years ago. I installed a 350 engine with the long water pump, a 3/4" WP spacer, a fan clutch, and a 6 blade fan. It puts the front of the blade about 2 1/2" from the radiator. I have had no cooling problems with this configuration.
However, using the short pump which is standard on a 327 it would probably be necessary to use a fan shroud. If you were planning on using an auto trans it would probably be a good idea to use a shroud in both instances.
Fred

I know there are lots of ways to "skin da cat" but I would like to try to set my truck up like an original V8 truck. My truck is by far not an original restoration, I just like the "flavor" and "look" of certain parts of the original stuff. Add to this, it appears that Chevrolet did a lot of things along the way that confuses people and gets everyone worked up (i.e. rivets in some applications and bolts in others!!)

I did not realize in the beginning that switching to a V8 (and doing it the hard way) would be so involved. I was able to contact a "bolter" yesterday who has successfully completed the conversion and is helping me with mine.

Maybe once I am done I will post up pics of all the different parts needed to make this happen.

Thanks again for the feedback and info.
bb

I second the motion re: electric fan. Easier installation and better cooling at low speed. It may not look original but functionality trumps looks for me.

You can move stuff around, change engines, and install V-8 emblems, it still doesn't make it a real "V-8" truck. The VIN still identifies it as year, model, and engine. However, most people that will look at it either don't know or care what it started out as.
Fred

Thanks guys for the feedback and the useful information. This truck was my olman's truck, who had drug it around for 20+ years without being able to get it onto the road. It is being built as a tribute to him and in a "fun" way to carry surfboards to the beach with no concern for authenticity to the original production.
I stumbled onto the Napco stuff and put that under it as well. Napco's were not factory installed until later in 57/58, but I thought it was cool and "fun".
I searched for more info on the difference between V8 trucks and I6 trucks and found very little info. I did find a couple of guys here who have made the conversion using "factory" parts and I am stoked for their assistance and hope to have the correct stuff soon.
bb

bajabob,

Please post photos. Thanks for posting information. We do not see many posts about working NAPCOs.

Here are some links to info - for members who want to learn more.

Here's some real world information. The Task Force trucks which were fitted with NAPCO drive trains had 235 engines in them. The NAPCO setup was not designed to handle the horsepower of a V8. You will have some early failure of moving parts such as transfer case, and drive shafts if you try to put a V8 in a NAPCO truck. If one were to insist of doing so, It would be a good idea to use a plain Jane one and stay out of the gas pedal as much as possible.
Carl

tc
I will put some pics up as soon as I can set up a photo bucket account. I have less than a month to get her running for a big event!!! Wish me luck.

52Carl
I would be curious what the basis is for your conclusion that the Napco stuff will not hold up???

I had not planned on blasting it anywhere as it is almost sixty year old running gear!!! So maybe a jeep trail in the desert or two (desert bar in parker ???) but other wise, just something a little different then cutting up a longbed truck to slam it ???
bb

http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/bajabob56/library/?sort=3&page=1

Not sure how well that worked but a couple of recent shots and a few of her in the field I drug her out of out in Utah.

All driveline components are rated for a certain amount of torque, with a bit of a safety margin built in for unforeseen situations. Hotrodding anything, whether it's an engine, a transmission, transfer case, driveshaft, or even a radiator uses up some, or sometimes all of that safety zone. Some parts are way over-built such as the SM-420 transmission. They're just about bulletproof, no matter what engine they're coupled up with. transfer cases, front and rear axles, and driveshafts- - - -that's another matter entirely. I wouldn't be surprised to see that you have some chronic failures of very scarce, expensive parts with V8 power.
Jerry

Hotrod
I guess this guy didn't get the memo!~!

Forrest Gump's mama had something to say about him, and it wasn't "Life is like a box of chocolates!"
Jerry

A good friend of mine did what that guy did, but not for long...
That is my reference for my warnings against a V8 in a NAPCO.
A major issue with the NAPCO setup is the high lift springs and the extreme angles on the drive shafts. The u-joints don't hold up, and as they go, they take out the transfer case bearings.
Carl

Carl
Will it make it to the beach and back loaded heavy with surfboards ???

ps
That guy in the video was/is a tool, my truck is in no way a "serious off road deal". I had actually kicked that idea around and thought about late model running gear but like I stated earlier, I was looking for something a little different and came up with the current plan. I hope it's not taken to serious and allowed to just enjoy the ride???
bb

It will if you stay out of the gas pedal. For most, that means no.

I believe the T221 Xfer case was used thru the 60's with V8's in Chevys and Big Block V6's in GMC's. The V8 was 283, not a torquer.
Not as much torque as the available 292 6cyl. A 283 would be super cool motor for your truck. Nice sound, manly looks.

The T221 didn't start until '60. The Napco and Task Force/Blue Chip 4x4s used the Spicer 23 transfer case.
It might be worth noting that the GMC Napco and factory built 4x4s did have a V8 option with the same drivetrain components as the Chevrolet, plus the option of the Hydramatic with 4 wheel drive, which Chevrolet did not offer.

Carl is correct about 6 cyl and 4 sp in factory Chevy Napco trucks. Bill, I misspoke about T221. Thanks for the correction, always welcome. A Rockwell transfer, I think ,was a one year only in 1955. The 55.2 Napco used a 3/4T drivetrain.(more or less). Spicer not ready until 1956. Dealers installed Napco in V8's and GMC's were available from factory in a V8. I don't think there was "Factory Only" until 1960. If there was no prohibition about dealers installing in a V8, the "6 cyl only" may have had a different reason than strength. Production line issue? One RPO? (different length/parts from tranny to diff?), better torque motor? Exhaust pipe issues? Utility Co.'s, municipal, and rescue only wanted 6 cyl?

Interesting note:
Napco Owners Group Website.
"DANA through it's subsidiary SPICER had been a major parts supplier for NAPCO. They used SPICER Model 23 Transfer Cases for most of the GM conversions, procuring the units from SPICER's Toledo manufacturing facility. In addition, Rockwell Transfer Cases were sometimes used, and GM provided the majority of the other parts for the conversion, including the basic corporate front axle housings. Additional components included Hotchkiss driving axles and Rzeppa constant velocity joints."
It's not a T221 used in 55.2.

Here is bolter Frank VanderBroek (stranger) explaining his 55.2 Napco.

"Mater's Cousin has the rare driver's side pumpkin, twin stick, Rockwell case. In 1956 General Motors changed to the Spicer case, single stick, with passenger side pumpkin."

Bajabob: Disregard. Except in green.

Bartamos
Thanks for reply, I went with an early 327, mostly because I scored a smoking deal from another "truck" buddy and cannot wait to fire this thing up. I am with you on the sound and the look but mainly the fun of just trying to do something different and cool. Tires get mounted this weekend on a sweet set of rims that I scored from a cool "bolter" here.

Through another "bolter" I found a local who has a stash of trucks and parts... should be able to get all the conversion parts I need, just hope I still have some clothes left when it over!!! lol !!!
bb

327? Even better!

Take an old truck.

Restore it.

Then drive it on the beach with all that sand an salt?

That's corrosion city.

Just as much fun using an old auto as in restoring one. Though I see us as preservers of history. Jeffrey

I'm thinking: Parking in a parking lot in San Diego, near the beach for a while, is not as near as harmful as driving on salted roads every winter day in N.Y.

I could use that spreadsheet as I'm debating my next step...rebuild the 235 or go ahead and convert...

my email is [email protected]